Question Reguarding #db Channel Rules.


16-06-2007 06:47:19

When was it decided to reinforce the swearing rule?
Does anyone remeber how well it worked last time?
Why wasnt the club told as a whole about it over the mailing lists? Or some other means of making sure the entire club knows?

I'll give my sober opinion. Most people swear within reason in the main channel. Those who dont, its usually blatantly obvious. Most people let the odd swear word creep into a sentence in passing, we all know this, alot of people do it.

Its very rare to see some one swear excessively. The odd swear word here and there. I mean this rule protects no one, for the simple reason, every member of the club is in a clan, therefor in a clan channel as well as the DB one. So in 5/6 cases, this rule just pretty much acts destructively, more so then constructively by driving people out of the main channel just for an odd swear word here and there. :P

Discouraging swearing in this way, also discourages channel activity, in my opinion.

Perhaps i'm wrong. I'm just asking a few questions, giving comment, etc.

I'm not having a go, i just want to hear what people, DC Members, the people who enforced it, and the people it effects, have to say...

I'll just repeat my point again, because i can see some one posting some load of tripe. I have no problem with people, even myself, getting banned for excessive swearing. Most people swear passively.

I'd also like to say, its also about the maturity of the person who may find it offensive, doesnt mean they have to use the swear words because some one else used them. It also involved maturity in ignoring it. I'd say most 13 year olds have heard it all before, at school, or at home... etc.


16-06-2007 11:41:05

You're pretty much arguing against nothing here.

The club was told, or rather, reminded. I see a post on the main page from Muz about it. The Dark Covenant has the basic rules for behavior that all members should abide by in official Brotherhood areas, including IRC. Ignorance of the rules doesn't mean they don't apply to you, nor is ignorance a valid defense when some punishes you for breaking them.

If you'll note, though, the guidelines stress not swearing **excessively**. The rules essentially acknowledge that people are going to swear and, while perhaps not the most admirable of traits, small stuff can slide. If you see an overzealous OP, or what you believe to be overzealous, bring it to someone's attention. Otherwise, who knows? They just might start going after every single swear and curse uttered in the channel. Pretty soon, everyone will be banned except them! In the end, I guess we're all doomed...

Ultimately, the Brotherhood operates on the principle of freedom of association. You don't like your clan, go find another one. You don't like a particular IRC channel? Go to another one. You don't like the Brotherhood? Nice knowing you- there's the door. But, freedom of association means that when you join a group, you follow their rules. The rules of the Brotherhood say you're not supposed to do certain things, some of which are restricted to certain areas. Deal with it. And if it drives people away from the channel, which I highly doubt, then that's how it works.

If you're afraid that the passive swearing will get you in trouble, guess what? You can stop that. You don't have to swear, whether actively or passively. There are plenty of other words out there; just open up a thesaurus.


16-06-2007 13:40:30

Anshar ftw! :)


16-06-2007 14:33:15

These rules have always been the rules and if you read the CoJ page, exclusively refer to “official” Brotherhood channels. Hence why making fun of CSP is allowed in #Arcona, but not #DB. It’s not Earth Shattering dude.

I do have a question however, where can a list of “official IRC channels” be found, so we can avoid saying potentially CoJable stuff there.

Lastly, if the Doto doctrine was universally adopted within the DB, this wouldn’t even be an issue. >.<

Sith Bloodfyre

16-06-2007 17:17:10

There have been times where, when I have considered sending certain emails to specific people/groups, I have asked Oberst to critique the letter, and edit it for me. Do you know what one of the most-oft suggested changes to how I talk/write is? Oberst reminds me that removing excess profanity sounds much more intelligent, and emphasizes specific uses of cursing when it is meant to be there, and so on, and so forth. Yep, even Oberst recognizes there's a time to curse, and a time not to.

"Policing #db" is, in the grand scheme of things, not the biggest issue we have ever dealt with, or ever will deal with. As far as policing #db, go ahead. I could honestly care less. As a general rule, I don't pay much attention to the channel; it's one of the reasons I have X access (as a Consul), but not auto-ops. I try and take note of specific things that I find offensive, such as the use of a certain nick (Etah :P). Blah blah, blah. I have my own interpretation of what is written in the Covenant, as does everyone else.

Instead of making it an issue of "do/do not police #db," make it an issue of "what do we/do we not police in #db." Because really, that's where this issue becomes ridiculous. Sarin and co. don't want you to use the [Expletive Deleted F-word] word; hey, it gets edited out here on the boards, oh well. They can't "edit" it out of IRC, so they try and edit it out of you. You're going to say it regardless, they recognize this. Jac codes up a script that, in essence, let's you say the [Expletive Deleted F-word] word five times in an hour, without the "big punishment" of an hour ban that comes with the sixth time (from the same word; each word you use has its own count).

All things considered, I'd say that's a decent way of handling it. What I don't like, personally, is the idea that I don't know what words Jac has scripted into the "offensive" list, and neither does most anyone else. I have asked Jac for the list, I hope to rectify this issue. Once I get the list, I will probably voice certain objections on specific words; for instance, I do know that the word "[Expletive Deleted]" is scripted. If someone is telling you "suck my [Expletive Deleted]," maybe that's worthy of a ban, maybe not. But speaking of a recent news item involving [Expletive Deleted] Cheney, however.... eh. That's kind of ridiculous. Adding the word "[Expletive Deleted]," I don't like that.

"OMG, noooooooooes! They're policing #db!" If you can't handle that, no, it's not "like it or leave it." I see it as "like it or ignore it." You can be just as much a part of the DB without #db as you can with it. I mean, seriously. When was the last time anything pertinent to the Club and your personal success happened in #db?


16-06-2007 19:01:43

I would like to add that I have cursed more today, playing with the bot than I ever have previously >.<


16-06-2007 19:56:20

As muz told me 5 times an hour. I dont give a crap. i'm not spamming swear words to offend people. Sort it. Now.

Makurth Mandalore

16-06-2007 20:52:50

In this case, I feel even more sorry for the DB bot :P

But yeah, I can see why cursing should be toned down at the very least.


18-06-2007 10:29:21

The reason why it wasnt enforced is because it was never that big a problem. When there is activity, there's always an admin around anyway.

People who swear and people who dont, both have a right to be in the channel, if some one is that easily offended by the odd swear word, simple, dont go in there.

As Bf said, nothing really happens in there anyway. :P

Though i do have a question... what does a half assed rule like this accoplish? People still swear in there, so people can still get offended. Excsesive swearing is and always has been delt with anyway...

It doesnt hinder Swearing
It doesnt stop people getting offended

Whats the point?

Its also about the higher ups wasting time on something like this, not just Jac's Super Annoying Scipt. :P


18-06-2007 12:20:46

"who dont both have a right to be in the channel"

And that is where your whole point becomes at least unstable.


18-06-2007 17:42:10

Jac's script is sweet :P


19-06-2007 18:23:38

To be honest Zeron, my point is, both ways can be argued. People rarely go over the top.

Jac's script is annoying. :P