North Korea Tests Nuke

Scorpius

08-10-2006 23:30:21

North Korea successfully tested a nuclear weapon at approximately 9:30 PM Eastern Time. A South Korean intelligence agency detected a seismic tremor shortly after North Korea claimed it had successfully tested it nuke.

The communist nation, which has now long-claimed nuclear weapons and annoyed world powers in July by miserably attempting to test missile reportedly capable of hitting California, received condemnation from more nations and the UN Security Council after the said on October 3rd they were getting ready to test a nuclear weapon.


As I heard it fittingly explained in July-- North Korea is a jealous little kid who wants to sit at the big kid table. When Iran claimed to be enhancing its nuclear capabilities, the world came rushing to offer them all sorts of deals to deter them. Meanwhile, North Korea claimed to already possess nuclear weapons and was ignored. So, in a ruse to gain attention amidst the propulsion of the Iranian affair and Israeli-Lebanon conflict in July, North Korea claimed to be creating a missile capable of hitting California and subsequently test-fired several various missiles, each of them not lasting very long at all in the air and just falling into the ground. The only response? Japan decided to begin the process to change its constitution so that they can have an army, and North Korea became the butt of many late-night talk show hosts' jokes.

So, if claiming nuclear weapons and testing long-range missile didn't work, North Korea has decided to just go into a large temper tantrum and being restricted to the little kid table and actually LAUNCH a nuclear weapon test.

Result?

The little kid is going to get spanked. Hard.



Who do you think is going to react first? :ermm:

Werdna Elbee

09-10-2006 04:41:08

Ideally, we want China to go in so there are less repercussions.

Zeron

09-10-2006 06:33:04

well, noth korea reached a point where noone gonna make a step against him ;)

Ylith Pandemonium

09-10-2006 09:03:45

There's no oil there...so no response from America...I guess we Europeans have to clean up this mess...*sigh*...

Shinichi Endymiron K

09-10-2006 09:38:49

Ylith that statement is just plain ignorant.

There are plenty of moral reasons for us to interfere, but lets toss those out because everyone knows war is about economics and that's it.

The simple truth is we need North Korea to chill out because our economy would be heavily impacted by a loss of trade with South Korea, China and Japan all of which would happen if that whack job Kim Jong Il started on the warpath. BTW Ylith I don't see very many European troops guarding the border at Panmunjom or manning posts at camp warrior, or maintaining naval forces in the Sea of Japan. ;) That aside if you want to discuss resources North Korea is full FULL of mineral resources. The country is divided in quite an unusual manner with the north being well suited to industry and the south to agriculture. A united Korea would become a major economic power provided it was united under a capitalist/republican doctrine. And before you get in a huff republican means a system of representative government wherein there is a legislative body such as a senate or parlimant that votes on laws and measures and not a totally free democracy, which most people confuse the US for, in which everyone votes on every measure. A free democratic system is chaotic which is why most nations adopt the republican system. Flawed yes, but it's the best we can do.

Now back to economics. As any consumer can note with a little observation a great many things imported into the US and the rest of the civilized world are manufactured or at the very least designed and developed in China, South Korea, and Japan from toasters to automobiles. A loss of these vital points of development would be devastating to the US and world economies. For these reasons alone the US has a vested interest in preserving stability on the Korean peninsula. But what's more is that no one, and I don't give a flying rat's a$$ what you think about him, no one not even George W. Bush wants a nuclear war. we've been through these scenarios before during the Cold War with a little program called M.A.D. (Mutually Assured Destruction). Nuclear war serves no purpose but the destruction of humanity. Conversly we cannot appease a lunatic like Kim Jong Il. We saw the results of that with Chamberlain and Hitler. Before you know it you're cornered and the enemy has all the high cards.

So in conclusion get off your high horse and look at reality. You bitch about the US going all over and being the world police when we act in another nation, and then you turn around and bitch when you think we won't act. So which is it? You want to us to act or not? Look at facts, look at history and furthermore quit trying to blame the only nation taking a proactive stance on global issues.

Final note: North Korea has a good amount of oil resources as well.

Zeron

09-10-2006 10:40:46

and a good ammount of troops too, America focuses on the Middle east now. If he can control the oil and the countries there, he may keep his superiority for a while. Noone will touch North Korea.

Shinichi Endymiron K

09-10-2006 11:51:52

Don't be so certain. North Korea is not the invincible power you imagine.

Zeron

09-10-2006 13:16:34

we will see ;)

Kaine Mandaala

09-10-2006 13:56:29

Warning: Political content/commenting is still not permitted on the DJB forums!

So far the thread seems rather civil, but don't let this get to a point where I need to suspend people.

And yeah - Kim Jong Il is about as cool as Pol Pot -- about a 12 on the 1-10 "crazy" scale.

Shinichi Endymiron K

10-10-2006 09:46:40

And now they're threatening to launch a nuclear tipped missle (which I don't think they have) if the US doesn't engage in one-on-one talks with them. Kim Jong-Il is a child who wants to be treated as a grown up even if he has to throw a nuclear tantrum to get that recognition.

Cethgus

11-10-2006 05:41:06

I dont like the way everything has gone Nuclear now i mean it does worry me a bit because of all the Nuclear stuff and what if they put it into a wapon

Tarax Kor

11-10-2006 11:37:29

Kim Jong-Il is a child who wants to be treated as a grown up even if he has to throw a nuclear tantrum to get that recognition.




No, no...you're American... it's nukular.

;)

Werdna Elbee

11-10-2006 11:44:02

More like nu-cool-ar

Tarax Kor

11-10-2006 11:45:56

I dont like the way everything has gone Nuclear now i mean it does worry me a bit because of all the Nuclear stuff and what if they put it into a wapon




By the way, this makes no sense. Either get smart, or shut up.

Kthxbye. :)

*shoots the Ty-po-dong missle at Cethgus*

Shinichi Endymiron K

11-10-2006 16:05:43

Tarax don't be a D1

Tarax Kor

12-10-2006 00:43:53

Tarax don't be a D1



The word you're looking for is [Expletive Deleted]. You're an adult (I hope), you can spell it out.

Cethgus

12-10-2006 03:06:46

Actully im english i just can spell that well :) well i think that it is a bit worrying

Shinichi Endymiron K

12-10-2006 08:57:53

And the genius still doesn't realize that there's a word filter. Good job. :D

Tarax Kor

12-10-2006 09:22:24

I do realize...it doesn't stop me from saying it, though.

'Genius'. ;P Otherwise, y'know, I'd remember after the fact like yourself, and edit the word.

And I thought the Keibatsu were smart...tsk. Obviously, that does not seem to be the case. :D


But back to the topic at hand...Iran's uranium enrichment is nothing compared to North Korea's seeming willingness to possess Nuclear Warheads and take an aggressive stance against the world. With Iran, the greater nations can still resolve the issue of it obtaining nuclear arms. With North Korea...once they start trying to build up more nuclear armaments the rest of the world will squash them like a MACK truck squashing a fly. Diplomacy won't go far with North Korea, especially since Kim Jong-Il doesn't appear to have the right state of mind to conduct any talks.

Shinichi Endymiron K

12-10-2006 09:27:42

btw does it make you feel all big and important to act like a knob when you know there's no consequences? How old are you 12?

And yes back to topic.

I think in North Korea's case only military action will resolve the issue unless they return to six-party talks. If we place an emabrgo upon them then they will grow desperate and begin a war in the south, whereas if it's initiated by a coalition we can take it to the north. Sadly the real victims are the north Koreans who starve while Kin Jong-Il diverts food and money to his military.

Tarax Kor

12-10-2006 09:33:34

*sigh* :ermm:

Kids these days.

Shinichi Endymiron K

12-10-2006 09:40:57

:D indeed. Anyway us bickering isn't going to open up the forum for honest discussion on the matter so let's let it drop.

Cethgus

12-10-2006 10:26:56

So then what do you think about it i mean doesnt it worry you at all

Tarax Kor

12-10-2006 12:48:35

Oh, I am worried. But then again...how much does my worried affect the result of the matter? I'm in no position (unfortunately) to influence the whole fiasco to a peaceful end.

It worries me that while North Korea is unstable, the NNC (Nuclear Nations Club - yes, I just made that up) is practically unwilling for ANY other countries to weild power that strong. Of course, NK is an exception because its ruler's screws are dangerously loose...but there is that part of the situation which is the message that ANYONE other than the current nations in the NNC cannot have nuclear arms.

If the NNC is so worried about that, how about they walkt he walk and destroy their own nuclear arms, while convincing others to do the same. I believe that is the only way the other countries will reasonably listen to them. Is that too na´ve/idealistic? Maybe.

Scorpius

12-10-2006 14:56:56

Actually.. The Nuclear nations club is used quite often... Though, most people just call it the "Nuclear Club", at least in all the news reports. :P

Anyways, no, North Korea having a Nuke is not scary for Americans of Europeans. The South Koreans and Japanese have the most to be worried about. However, I don't think that even good ol' Kim would be stupid enough to actually launch the missile at another country. While the North Korean government is incredibly immature and stupid, they would realize that if they nuked South Korea or Japan, China would completely pull back from them and probably just stay silent as the United States reigned hell down on them.


On the issue of the Nuclear Club, there are several reasons why we do not want them to have weapons. For one, it tips the global balance of power-- nuclear North Korea completely messes up the fragile balance in that area of the world, and a nuclearly-armed Iran would severely alter the balance of power there and pose a threat to Israel.
Similarly, of all those nations "officially" in the Nuclear Club (the USA, Great Britain, Russia, China, France, India, Pakistan) and "suspected" members (Israel, Libya, Iran, and, now confirmed, North Korea), only one nation has ever used a nuclear weapon on another-- the United States against Japan to end World War II in the Pacific.
When countries like Iran and North Korea--perceived to be hostile and unstable--begin getting nuclear weaponry, people get nervous, fearing that these crazies might actually use their weapons. Iran has repeatedly supported the complete obliteration of Israel and dislikes the USA, and North Korea hates South Korea, Japan, and the USA. Naturally, we don't like people like that getting weapons.

Furthermore, the more nukes there are in the world--particularly in nations not as safe as the larger world powers--the risk of a terrorist getting hold of one increases, and a terrorist with a nuclear weapon is a nation's worst fear next to total nuclear war. If it had been a nuke instead of a plan that hit the WTC, or nukes rather than small bombs that blew up trains in London and Madrid, imagine the death toll then. Nations in the Middle East and Africa can't protect things like that.

And I do agree that we should further disarmement. However, nations like Russia, China, and the USA in particular are nervous to do it under risk that the other might keep some around. China will not get rid of things unless the USA does, and vice-versa.

It's a very complicated situation, and the only reason that it hasn't gotten worse between the Nuclear Nations is that people realize that in a nuclear war, everyone loses.

Aghasett

12-10-2006 20:15:20

We're still not even certain if he lit off a nuke or not. The measured blast was way too small according to the DoD. It could've been a deception in the form of a lotta TNT, or it could've been a failed nuke test. Either way it's no surprise. We know that Kim is and has been steadily escalating, and the only reason we've held out this long is so that we could actually come to this point -- the "why" of course being to bring Russia, and more specifically China, firmly into the Western camp. W/o China's total cooperation, sanctions will not work. And sanctions are what's gonna happen. There will be no military action unless something totally unlikely and unpredictable happens.

Tarax Kor

12-10-2006 21:56:54

Well...even though the U.S. is against military action, they've proposed the UN Section 7 bill (or whatver it is called) to the UNSC, which does allow them to use force when and as they see fit.

Hm.

Cethgus

13-10-2006 05:40:04

Ok then but i mean i think the UN will sort it out

Aghasett

16-10-2006 18:10:08

UPDATE

In Brief: U.S. Confirms N. Korea Nuke Blast -- less than 1 kiloton, small by conventional standards (1 kiloton = 1000 tons of TNT). U.N. Sanctions pass, but China's questionable commitment still the determing factor.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/15287725/

This is chess for big boys. It'll be very interesting to see if China gets serious and averts the wider crisis. It's so much in their hands. One would think it could only serve their interests to look like the global savior; local and international prestige, not to mention neutralizing the threat itself. But they always seem so ineffectual and wishy-washy on this level. Their bureaucracy is huge and getting all their ducks in a row on something like this, with so many diverging interests and power centers, I'll remain skeptical about the whole effort until Pyongyang makes some serious move towards concessions.

Tarax Kor

20-10-2006 09:21:53

Taken from BBC World News

North Korea's leader Kim Jong-il told a visiting Chinese envoy the North had no plans to conduct more nuclear tests, South Korea's Yonhap news agency says.

Full story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6069652.stm

Shinichi Endymiron K

20-10-2006 11:36:55

I'm glad China finally bucked up and used its influence for something usefull.

Laigerick Sithelhood

01-12-2006 17:44:27

:P i say nuke 'im all