The Duel Of All Duels
:w00t: Im gonna go with Revan..any day of the week..
Yeh, Revan ftw. But isn't Vader a bit weak a competitor for our legendary hero?
Yeh, Revan ftw. But isn't Vader a bit weak a competitor for our legendary hero?
yah i would probably have to agree with you.
I think Sion and Windu also stand a chance, but Revan for sure.
Now would this be Vader from the books, or the movies. In the origional movies the acting of the day and fight scenes Vader was a complete pansy, while in the books he was wicked bad. But I still think it would have been a great battle between Revan and Vader for sure. I am just trying to think why is it if Vader had such a high midichlorean (spelling) count, how come he never used to many force powers? Also with Revan I have read little about him, but in the KOTOR games, I usually set him up as an Obbie, with very few powers that dealt damage to others, so with that type of set up I think it would be pretty close.
His force prowess was limited by his almost dying/living inside a robot suit thing. In the prequel movies his power was much greater. The difference between pulling a lightsaber directly towards you and floating multiple items through the air.
Anakin Skywalker could have killed any one of those on the list. No sweat.
Darth Vader on the other hand, as Shad mentioned, was seriously limited after being confined to his suit.
He would have been able to beet all of them, say for Revan.
so is anyone else ready to vote?
I would also choose Revan. since he the better option.
The best duelist, isn't on the list however!
I vote for Tulak Hord!!!
...who's Tulak Hord?
...who's Tulak Hord?
Very Old sith lord i believe
Truth be told I'm the best duelist that ever dueled in this dueling sport of ours.
Where is the "All of the Above" option?
Darth Vader was a horrible saberist, that is well known. He lost most of his ability when his physical body was all but destroyed. What made him a frightening combatant was the fact that he augmented his mechanical strength through the force almost non-stop. All of the listed duelists above listed were notable figures in Light Saver combat, and could have easily beaten the pathetic lord vader.
well said vodo. *applause*
but... but... Tulak's my man, my bro, my homy, my...
whatever, he ows me money anyway
I am just trying to think why is it if Vader had such a high midichlorean (spelling) count, how come he never used to many force powers?
probably cause he had to use most of his power to hold himself up? thats my best guess.
But yeah, revan definitly, he is such a badass. You can read about that stuff at starwars.wiki.com.
Revan wasn't even all that good though!
He wasn't noted for his prowess in Saber combat, but rather for his ability to lead. he was charismatic and a strong leader, not a frightening combatant.
Vader was at least noted as a talented duelist, because in his time as Anakin, he learned three styles of saber combat, and as a Sith Lord, used Dun Moch, which is noted for it's force augmented power attacks.
Mace Windu was the second greatest duelist of the Jedi order in the time before it's fall. We know this because he was one of three current users of the Vaapad style, having learned it from the records, and revived its use, and then taught it to two others, who chose not to use it because of it's difficulty. He also directly defeat Palpatine in combat (i don't believe in the theory that he let himself be defeat).
Maul was a beast! This guy was a living weapon. His philosophy on combat was that his body was the real weapon, and that the saber he used was merely an extension of that fact. He was fast, agile, deadly, and trained to a fine edge.
Grievous's only strength was that he could operate and swing bluntly four sabers at once. He had no real form, and was not heavily trained in there use, nor was he particularly skilled. All he really did was spin them, and bash them into things. Four untalented sabers verse one is going to be hard no matter who you are.
Sion's only call to power was the fact that he could not be defeated in combat. otherwise, he was nothing more than average.
Overall, I would say everyone on this list would defeat Vader in combat (except maybe Grievous) because of Vader's lack of speed, and agility, his inflexibility, and susceptibility to the force that may damage his vital systems.
I Agree whole heartedly with Vodo on this one, Maul was an animal, Mace was an expert (probably the best saber dualist to walk the face of the galaxie in my own opinion) at his saber, I'm not familiar with sion so I cant and wont touch down on that one. And Grievous was just an idiot and thought he was "trained" in the art of saber dueling( And as we saw even in the movie he sucked at it) Plus he was a coward, he only attacked when he thought He had the higher ground. As forMy beloved Reven, alas he was'nt known for his saber skills. At all.
But still I love darth reven (As you can see my avatar) so therefore I will vote for him. But if Reven wasnt there, I would vote for Mace. I am a saber/melee fighter myslef with my friends (as I'm sure most of you are to, being the dark jedis we are) and am pretty good at it. I have practiced some parts of the phantommenace with my friends( me being darth maul of course) and have realized that he was a great swords man, but I think vader could out smart him anyday. Now I know that "I" was fighting and not maul, but still maul didnt use any force powers besides kicking and jumping. Were as vader Had a great mind for simmulations and fast paced thinking, I think he would lose an arm fighting maul, but in the end Darth vader would end up throwning him off a bridge with force grip or something. Mace could and would kick Vaders ass anyday in lightsaber combat. He could even beat anakin skywalker at his prime if he needed to.
Not sure where I read it, but I think that lightsaber prowess back in the KOTOR-era was way more advanced than the Pre-Empire days. They didn't have as many restrictions and they had a lot more epic lightsaber wars going on then there have been since the rule of 2. Would make sense that a person from that era would be more adept at kicking ass.
Maul is a weapon of brutality and agility. Melee combat is his area of expertise, his environment is a weapon to him(read that somewhere) or thats my preception of him.
Vader is severly disadvantaged against a speedy onslaught, but is a strategist, and his force usage is focused on augmenting his cyborgnetic systems, with some minor offensive attacks, and defensive tactics most likely. He knows he can be out ran, so must have some way of countering or repeling fast paced attacks.
Scion, not much was really said of Scion in terms of his styles I think. His drive obviously is survival, or he wouldn't be holding himself together like he does. Taking what I think of his personality in to account, Scion is more or less a brute, I don't know about his speed hower, but he definitely favors powerful strikes and sweeps, maybe some crippeling force usage like choke and wound at the same time.
Grevious doesn't even deserve mention. His metallic body and the stance he takes compensates for the gyroscopeing effects that would probably make him useless with the lightsabers he uses.
Revan, on the other hand is more or less depending on your style of play a heavy force user, with a high charisma she can most likely spam offesnsive force powers rapidly for a short time before being tapped.
I'm going with Shad on his theory of KoTOR saber combat. In that time period it was still very aggressive, seeing how at that time the Jedi order was almost regulary in one form of combat or another with some down time here and there. Revan's skill as a swordsman must have been good enough, seeing how she lead the charge of the Republic during the Mandalorian wars. The Mandalorians were supposedly melee specialists and adept at swordfighting. It was probably a huge part of their early culture, perhaps even played a major part in rights of passage.
Point is Revan more or less defeated a bucket load of Mando's plus their heavily shielded droids and other weapons that I don't know of, and can only guess about. So Revan is definitely coming out on top, maybe missing a limb or hand, but will be victorious unless the battleground is somewhere like Mustafar's lava river, or even a location with platforms and little movement space, with great drops. Then Vader may be able to launch her off an edge or even pwn the hell out of her in a tight spot.
Mace fought the Emperor before he was deformed and physically weakend. Yes thats a pathetic example of his skill. I suspect he and Yoda dueled regularly as exercise, seeing how Yoda is the supposed greatest swordsmen the Jedi had from that era, Windu with use of Vapaad probably gave him a run for his money regularly. So Windu would wreck Vader, perhaps not Anakin if he didn't get burnt crispy and had some more training.
That's my two cents right there.
If I may be so bold as to post on this forum.
If anything, Tulak Hord, known for being the greatest Lightsaber Combatant to have ever walked the galaxy, could easily have defeated Vader, and since he was the..I think 4th or 6th Sith Lord to be in the Galaxy, would have had more power and agility then a walking tin can.
And also, Vader's suit was actually Dark Armor, an ancient Ritual that the Sith used to augment the wielders entire body, increasing his strength and speed, but since it was heavy and his body was damaged, his speed was in fact decreased. He, also, wasn't known for dueling, instead he relied more on the Force to throw objects at his enemy, especially if they were more agile then he was.
Also, you guys forgot Marka Ragnos, an ancient Sith Lord with a lot more Power and Finesse then most Sith Lords listed. Sure, he didn't expand his empire, but he held the seat for a Century even with power hungry Sith underneath him.
And before anyone else says it, yes...I am indeed a Nerd.
First of all...you're not in Tal. But that can be overlooked (momentarily).
Second of all...you're reviving an old/dead topic. That's referred to as a 'Forum Faux Pas', or in other words, lame.
Oh, and Vader's suit isn't actually Dark Armor. It's a god-damned respirator leotard, if anything.
Ok, First of All, it's be referred to as Dark Armor multiple times, second of all...yea, I do Faux Pas's all the time.