Multiple Leadership Positions

Since I thought a conversation like this might get shut down in the comments section of a report, I thought I would put something here.

While I fully agree that Smoke is entitled to create whatever set of standards he wishes for people to apply for his Praetor or Magistrate, I do find the requirement "No person with current leadership responsibilities will be allowed on my staff" to be an interesting addition to this list. At first, I thought perhaps the reasoning was because he was concerned with the amount of work that would be required in holding a position such as this, and being in multiple leadership positions would interfere with someone's ability to effectively do their work (a reasonable concern). However, after reading a couple of the comments, I'm thinking maybe this isn't the case:

"Far too many people with multiple positions." (Granted, this comment is open-ended enough to entail a few reasons)

"I'm not looking for a power hungry position monger, Driftan..."

I guess my ultimate reason for posing this issue would boil down to the following question, "Is there an issue with someone holding multiple positions in the Brotherhood if they are able to do each of them well?" I'm curious to know what people think because I've heard sentiments like this before and I'm not sure where they come from.

On a personal note, I would say that using the phrase "power hungry position monger" is a weak generalization of members who hold multiple positions. While it may be true that there could have been people in the past who fit that description, using that logic is simply throwing aspersions at people with no base of reasoning and unhelpful to the issue at hand.

Thanks for anyone who chooses to reply, and I look forward to hearing what you all think.

I think he has had staff in the past who have been in positions before and couldn't handle also working for him. Maybe how he chose to word it wasn't exactly the correct way of doing it. He would prefer 100% dedicated to his work. Even if you think you can work for him and work for what ever position you are in. He doesn't want to "try" things out with you, even with the knowledge you can and end up having to rehire someone afterward.

Good Luck!

My belief is that someone shouldn't hold multiple positions because it takes away from the experience other members could be gaining. Say person 1 has 3 jobs. He/she sits on those jobs for a long time. Somewhere not around those 3 jobs another position opens up. Person 2 wants to apply for the new job but is lacking experience because person 1 is sitting on 3 potential experience building jobs. I believe that only allowing one position for a person would greatly accelerate the amount of productivity in this club as well as help with the lack of applications for positions that I keep hearing people complain about.

In response to Smoke not wanting someone with a current leadership position; he's stated to me over IRC in private message that he refuses to let anyone on his staff with current leadership duties because he simply believes that the leadership duties in question should be their only priority. Ensuring that the members have been taken care of before gaming. I don't see a problem with this in the slightest. I can understand where holding multiple positions might get a little ludicrous if you're something like QUA/M:GM/P:DGM/CM/WIKI... because then you're more or less taking away that potential productivity and learning experience from other members.

On the other hand, having a couple positions isn't all that ghastly. There are many of us that serve in leadership positions and as Magistrates, even Praetors. One, with enough time, can effectively serve as P:FIST or M:FIST and have leadership duties, not everyone has that ability, and I believe that Smoke is more or less taking into consideration the fact that not everyone has that ability. He doesn't want to take the risk, which is understandable. He has a lot coming to the gamers of the Brotherhood, and wants someone that will work as hard as his former Magistrate (and now Praetor) without complaining and moaning about the workload. How many times have people taken up several responsibilities and done nothing their entire tenure, or even just one responsibility and done the same?

Overall: A couple positions isn't that bad. Loading up on 4+, on the other hand, is a little ridiculous. Smoke has every right to lay down the 'No current leadership duties' requirement for any member of his staff. Finished.

I think I understand where everyone is going with their lines of thinking, but I would also say that most of what you are saying contains either an emotional reaction to not allowing people to have opportunities to lead/serve, or an illogical conclusion that all people holding multiple positions can't do all of them well. I will agree that there have been circumstances in the past, and most likely will be in the future, where people haven't performed well when holding multiple positions, but should we then make an arbitrary rule that no one should then hold multiple positions?

I would also think that a lot of reactions about people holding multiple positions comes down to a jealousy issue of not receiving a shot at doing something when someone else already holds a spot. Honestly, I can sympathize with that feeling, but I would also say that I would rather be in a merit-based organization where people who have proven themselves are continued to be given more shots to excel, and those who haven't been given a chance yet will when the current leadership believes they are worthy. Do we risk missing someone in this process? Yes, but that is a risk you always run within an organization.

On the other hand, we could implement an arbitrary limit on people and have more of an affirmative action based system where people are held back based on rules guided by feelings of entitlement rather than merit. That's not a system I would prefer to be in.

Finally, I'm curious what people think concerning Smoke's comment about people being power hungry position mongers. Is this a feeling held by others? And if so, why do you feel this way?

You want a make a real world connection to this, members of the American Congress always sit on several different committees, because no person is only talented in a single field. If you are THAT specialized, you shouldn't be a Congressman to begin with, but that's irrelevant.

On another note, let's be honest, there aren't enough active members in the DB to make it to where people only need to hold one position. Sometimes, an older member is brought into a position because newer members aren't applying for it. This is changing in some areas, but it is also getting worse in others.

Finally, does Smoke's comment of leadership duties refer to any position that would be placed on your dossier? For instance, I would not consider being a member of the DJBWiki Staff or an SA Docent a "leadership duty" to the same regard as Magistrate. Most regular-level staff members perform day-to-day activities (watching Wiki activity) that doesn't take any time at all, so would that still be a problem to work with the Gaming Dept.?

I have another good real world link up for this. When I was in the Army it took me a lot of hard work to gain the position of squadleader while only being a Corporal. I was good at this job and often times had plenty of time left over to help others with various duties. When the day came that my Company Commander asked me to become his driver/assistant/guard I was offered the opportunity to do that amazing job and keep my squadleader position. I decided to step down from the squadleader position to allow for the training of someone else to fill my shoes. The person that took over my job became of of the best leaders I saw while I was in Korea and if I hadn't of given him that chance his potential would not of been discovered. Sure it could of been discovered later down the road but with that he was given more time in a position to allow him to excel before being sent to a place where his skills will really be put to the test. That man is now a squadleader in Iraq with 6 of my closest friends.

That is just a bit of a real world link to the stuff some are trying to get through on this matter. I'm not trying to make anyone mad with my objection to it, I am just saying what I firmly believe.

I'm not going to tell Smoke or anyone else how to run their own offices...in the end it is up to them how they want to set things up. I will say it's unfair to label anyone wanting more than one position a "power hungry position monger". There are reasons to what he did, but that shouldn't be one of them

That being said, it's one of those things that has to be weighed out, and may be a more personal preference. There always has to be a balance in place. All things being equal, the person without a current position *should* be chosen, because positions should be a bit more spread out. However, things are never equal. There are people with the time, energy and skill to do more than one position. It's been done before and will happen again. So you have to ask yourself a few questions when looking at those applications

1) Is this person the best candidate?
2) If yes to the above, do they have the time and energy to devote to the position?

Anyone can burn out, current position or not, but that's the determination that has to be made. Of course, by eliminating applications for anyone holding a leadership position already, you bypass that second question and just focus on the first. However, you are then limiting yourself to the pool of candidates. However, that is a determination each leader has to make for themselves.

So to sum up...personally, I don't have anything against people holding multiple positions, but preference should be given to spread positions out if the candidates are there for it.

If a Dark Council member doesn't want someone on their staff serving in more than one position, that's their right. A lot of positions can be held consecutively, but at the member's own risk. Commonly you'll find a mixture of Magistrate and lower level house summit positions being combined, and in rare cases Dark Council and Dark Summit mixtures will occasionally pop up. Each person handles their work loads differently, and it fluctuates with each Dark Council office.

With the FIST Office being one of the newest Dark Council additions, I can understand why Smoke wants his staff to be devoted 100% to making the gaming aspect of this club something fun, and not another botch job like the Gaming Tribunes of old left on our door step. Does a Battleteam Leader in today's Brotherhood really need to be focusing on other aspects of the Brotherhood when they can't even get their members out for a good showing in a Vendetta? Like I mentioned before, the FIST office is one that requires a lot more focus and attention if they want to keep their heads above water, and rise above the challenges that are placed before them. I'm all for Smoke's original requirements.

While I was once M:CoG, M:SHW and QUA at the same time, I don't think one should hold more than a couple of advisory positions, even EP and two Magistrate jobs or a similar 'light' commitment is stopping other active members from helping and learning (and reducing the likely DC pool). Also, would YOU want a magistrate or praetor who tells you to wait until they have finished their work for their other positions?