News Page Censorship

Malidir

07-07-2007 09:07:35

One of the rather cool things that we have over the EH is the ability to amend comments to newsposts made by everyone. The issue I have with that is the blatant censorship of things that don't seem to fall within the "party line". Most recently, there were lighthearted comments about the GJW, and a certain Clan's projected ability to do well. Censored. Am I the only person who thinks that things like that are weird and uncalled for?

Just trying to gauge the feelings of others, but it just doesn't seem right. I can understand removing comments that say things with derogatory language, so as to protect the younger members, but really. Sure, there are rules about commenting, but if people can't feel like they are free to make fun comments about things that interest them, why allow the ability to add comments at all?

Please enjoy this rare MB post by yours truly.

Zeron

07-07-2007 09:20:25

well i am sure we could use this MB for that Fun stuff, discussion and so on, and keep the news commenting for thanking, adding little comments, errors. but who knows? :)

Malidir

07-07-2007 09:29:26

well i am sure we could use this MB for that Fun stuff, discussion and so on, and keep the news commenting for thanking, adding little comments, errors. but who knows? :)



Problem with that is, not everyone goes to the MB. EVERYONE goes to the newspage. Speaking of which, Timeros is the new Consul of Arcona. Just wanted to mention that, so that people know. I would have commented on the newspost about it, but it wasn't there. So I will insert my congratulations and such here. Gratz Tim!

Zeron

07-07-2007 09:33:42

as i remember posting a message board link to the news page comment is acceptable! =)


edit:

and yes Congrats Timeros =)

Malidir

07-07-2007 09:35:54

as i remember posting a message board link to the news page comment is acceptable! =)
edit:

and yes Congrats Timeros =)



Ok, true. Deleting comments is also acceptable then?

Zeron

07-07-2007 09:58:31

when its necessary, yes.

Tarax Kor

07-07-2007 10:59:13

Quit whining.

And don't start comparing the club to the EH. You weren't even in this club when it was part of that cesspit. What the hell do you know? :P

Halcyon

07-07-2007 14:13:43

More or less what Tarax said :P Read the "rules" for comments and follow them. Unless they're "on topic" for the news post, they can and may be deleted. What may seem "innocent" to you isn't to the person you're talking to. In all seriousness...deal :P There hasn't been a lot of it, and with some of the comments made, I'm surprised it hasn't happened more. People really have something to say, step up and e-mail the person directly. Comments section isn't a soapbox in any way, shape or form

Sith Bloodfyre

07-07-2007 17:35:10

There's a line between a harmless jab, and provocation. Unfortunately, Mal, many people in the DB don't understand where that line actually sits. I think too many people are caught up in the whole "we all have to be friends" bull[Expletive Deleted], and have forgotten, we're all rivals. It's ok to allow, and even encourage some good natured jabs and such. So, unfortunately, you're going to get a lot of people telling you to "quit whining," or "read the rules," when in reality, everyone needs to unbunch their collective panties and loosen up their sphincters a bit.

Morgan

07-07-2007 19:18:39

This is an awesome topic for me to post on. I agree with Bf, some people take [Expletive Deleted] to seriously, i made a comment about CNS surrendering, its gone. I mean, its a joke, the way i put it couldnt be taken seriously.

Just before any snide comments, let me say this: I Whine. Do you know why i whine? If you dont realise this, and you are anything but a normal member, quit now. I whine, and i complain so the majority of the club doesnt feel so bad about making thier view known, so they can make thier view on where THIER club is going. I put my views in a way that people will feel so strongly either way that they will comment, which is more then anyone else does. (By that i do it pubically, if there's any other message board posts which encourage responces, please let me know.)

I give the members of the club an oppertunity to air thier views where people can see them, so the leaders of the club KNOW what people want, and what they dont want.

Have a nice [Expletive Deleted F-word]ing day to those people who say i do nothing constructive.

And dont delete this post.

Every person has an imagination, every person has idea,s that imagination, THOSE ideas, maybe the future of this club, i'm just trying to encourage that.

Malidir

07-07-2007 19:48:28

Yeah, I give up. Fun times. Censor this. Censor it all. But please...enjoy yourself whilst doing so. Reason #497937 why I stay off the MBs. And why I'll stay off of the newspage comments. Appoint whomever you will to future posts, powers-that-be...comments or no, I'm sure it's deserved. And Tarax...you rock. Seriously.

Khobai

07-07-2007 20:29:29

CNS really should just surrender.

Malidir

08-07-2007 10:34:34

/me deletes Khobai's post :P

kraval

08-07-2007 12:27:53

ALL POSTZ W1LL B3 D3LTZ0RD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111

RevengeX

08-07-2007 13:49:13

Another good point to bring up here is that it is generally difficult to read a written comment and understand what the writer's thoughts were.

For example, PersonX writes, "Everyone hates PersonY. :P". PersonY, who does not know PersonX at all, believes this to be an insult and retorts with, "STFU, asshole!", when in fact, PersonX was being sarcastic and actually really likes PersonY and thinks PersonY is the greatest person ever.

Dessan

08-07-2007 15:13:59

Another good point to bring up here is that it is generally difficult to read a written comment and understand what the writer's thoughts were.

For example, PersonX writes, "Everyone hates PersonY. :P".  PersonY, who does not know PersonX at all, believes this to be an insult and retorts with, "STFU, asshole!", when in fact, PersonX was being sarcastic and actually really likes PersonY and thinks PersonY is the greatest person ever.




.... STFU Asshole! :P

No really I've never seen a case of that. If it does happen then PersonY needs to learn to take a joke.

Tarax Kor

08-07-2007 22:38:37

I think we should have a disclaimer for all those sensitive idiots in the club, whenever a 'touchy' topic is at hand:

Malidir

09-07-2007 00:10:54

Yah, that's way too appropriate. It would be deleted almost immediately.

Anonymous

10-07-2007 10:57:02

I can understand the DC wanting to keep asinine remarks, arguments, and debates off the comments system, but lighthearted jokes and jabs are just that. It is true that something one person sees as "harmless" might be perceived as insulting by someone else, but the common sense that the DC so strongly urges us to use should be applied in these situations. The DC should exercise some of this. Sometimes people overreact on insults aimed toward them, and common sense should be applied in these scenarios to see how insulting the comment really is.

Getting uppity over a a relatively harmless comment is just you being childish, plain and simple. People need to grow thicker skin. I am also of the opinion that criticism should be allowed on the comments system, providing the criticism is done in a tasteful manner. I see no problem with having a problem, or even removing a comment saying, "That sucks lol", but when the comment actually applies to the post at hand and is constructive in some way, censoring it, removing it, or bitching about it is immoral and wrong, regardless of what the new "rules" say. That is my personal view on the new "rules".

In addition to this...Halc, I do believe in freedom of speech and you were within your right to say what you said in Kir's Justicar report. However, if you're going to tell people to respect and follow the new rules, and send concerns and comments that are outside of those rules via e-mail, you should probably do the same. Instead of posting on the comment system, you should have e-mailed Merlance and co. Shouldn't you? I implore you and the rest of the DC to look at the hypocrisy in what you're doing before you do it.

Well, theres my two cents.

Muz Ashen

10-07-2007 20:13:23

Blade: that would have been appropriate if it was only directed at one or two people... but the comment was for everyone to take in. It's not as hypocritical as you're making it out to be.

There's a lot of insubstantive complaining and bitching that happens on the comments feature. It can get a tendency to get into the schoolyard gang mentality, which is frankly pretty common on the internet, and not very fun or productive.

So yeah, I do agree that common sense should guide most people as to what we should and shouldn't stop people from saying... but we all, as members, should keep the snide and smartass stuff off of there.

if you do feel so strongly about a subject that you must say something, you're probably better served by taking a breather and emailing the responsible parties. It'd get you a lot more of a willing audience than smearing mud all over the news page will.

Anonymous

10-07-2007 21:04:44

Alright, I won't have an argument over whether or not what Halc did was hypocritical. I wasn't making a big deal out of it, only trying to show him what he was showing everybody else. What I said before still stands.

I don't really smear mud all over the news page. I do try to offer my opinion in the best way I know how, to get my point across as clearly as possible. I don't know if you were pointing a finger at me directly or not, but if you look back through my comments in the past year (perhaps longer, I don't know), you'll probably see only two comments that offer nothing constructive whatsoever, and those consisted of me laughing.

After we split from the EH, I've always attempted to contact the DC directly with problems I've had and the like. Sometimes they may have been typed up aggressively, but other times not. The point is, nothing was ever really settled with them. And by settled I don't mean things just going my way. I mean just a complete and total lack of any sort of care in the world. Not every DC'er, but a select few would instantly turn completely defensive, instead of concentrating on the actual concerns at hand. You didn't do that in my most recent e-mail, which I've told you I appreciated already, but other people do.

Most of the time I am being fairly constructive and trying to offer some insight in to decisions or events. When I send a direct e-mail, I wouldn't expect grown adults to grow defensive because I used a few curse words to make a point. A direct e-mail means I am talking to you personally. It isn't for the sake of being an asshat, and any individual without bias should be able to see what matters in those e-mails.

Halcyon

10-07-2007 21:59:13

I'm sorry that I pointed out what is says at the top of the page when you post a comment. I wasn't putting out an "opinion" since I was just re-stating what it already asks you to do, nor was I asking an off-topic question or "discussing" something different. But sure, of course that's hypocritical.

And I believe the whole point is people in general are doing this. Fine, maybe it's not you, but there are many others and it's usually the same people.

Kir

10-07-2007 22:43:01

Thought I'd chime in here.

First things first, I am incredibly hesitant when it comes to censoring anything as a leader. I think the ability to freely express our opinions about our club is absolutely essential to the DB's continuing to be an enjoyable place for everyone. I have personally never deleted a news comment, and I think I've deleted one MB post in the last two years due to excessive swearing - I stay away from censoring things because I don't think my role as a leader is to determine what opinions deserve to be posted and what opinions should be deleted.

However I do believe that everything has a place. The comments section of the news page is for the specific things listed in the rules - they appear every time you write a comment, and are easy to understand. The message boards are the perfect places for discussions, debates, and the appropriate place to state opinions - they are set up for that specific reason. If you want to debate something in a news post, or express your opinion on it, just take 60 seconds and setup a MB topic on the General Discussion board, then go to the news page and post a comment with a link to the MBs - bam, done. Total time it takes to do that...maybe 2 minutes.

Blade also said, "I am also of the opinion that criticism should be allowed on the comments system, providing the criticism is done in a tasteful manner." We've decided that it's better for discussions like that to take place on the MBs, but I absolutely agree with the second part of his statement, that being that criticism is fine (more than fine actually, it is essential) when it is done in a *tasteful* manner. Unfortunately we oftentimes respond quickly and without thinking, and the posts made can offend people. After you've offended someone's hard work, they become defensive, and the chance of working positively towards a solution is almost impossible.

In conclusion I'd say that censorship by leaders is not something I like to see, and actually I'd rather see almost none of it ever practiced. I do think that as a whole the DB should practice some self-censorship in the way we interact with each other. I'm not saying we should all be friends or anything like that, but a moderate level of respect should be expected. Also, criticism is good when it is constructive and put forward in a tasteful manner - offering alternate solutions, or at least explaining what issues you have and why - those are good ways of criticizing. It is oftentimes (actually, almost always) a better idea to send criticisms privately via email rather than posting them publicly, where the likelihood of embarrassment and defensiveness are high.

So censorship = bad
Constructive criticism = good
Private emails rather than public torment = good

Anyways, just my thoughts.

Tarax Kor

11-07-2007 00:41:25

Also, I'd like to add my two cents in:

Aside from some brash but to-the-point comments, I apologize for generally being a nonconstructive ass on both the comments section and the forums. Most things I say are out of line, if not completely irrelevant and demeaning. However, I do sometimes hide a simple and much-needed point in my bluntness, and it seems to get lost among the general attitude of my statement and my previous remarks.

Again, I apologize for most of my negativity.

However, that does not mean I will stop being blunt and/or brash. :P

Karel

11-07-2007 11:11:22

In my opinion people use the comments for discussions frequently because it is simply easier. You read the post, you just click add comment and you're done. This way, you're expecting people to actually go to the forums, possibly login, make a new thread, and expect other people to do the same thing. In most cases, it just leads to everyone forgetting about what they wanted to talk about in the first place. I see no problem in letting people discuss something relevant directly in the comments, if anything, it's much more useful to everyone to immediately read some interesting comments, counter-arguments or questions directly in the DB news page rather than having to go to the MB to search if anyone's cared enough to make a thread about it.

Of course, nasty comments shouldn't be allowed, but a few jokes, ironies, and harmless rants don't affect anyone, and it may even get a laugh or two from people. When you just remove the comment, you're basically removing that person's right to say something he felt was worth reading by everyone. Of course swearing, senseless bickering should always be removed, but lately some comments and even threads have been removed just because someone felt what was said was wrong. I say this: if the person who made the post feels offended by the comments, let him delete them. If he has no problem with someone criticizing his work, then why should a higher leader? Although, really, people need to learn how to accept both negative and positive comments. God knows I've had all but positive ones at every ORW post I made. But instead of asking it to be removed, or, worst, posting without comments enabled, I tried to do something to fix those issues. :P

Sildrin

11-07-2007 12:06:31

.... STFU Asshole! :P

No really I've never seen a case of that. If it does happen then PersonY needs to learn to take a joke.




Seen it happen more than once. Having a person suddenly being attacked what was supposed to be a "joke". And suddenly such a person was in the trouble having to face several pissed off people and giving him / her a hard time. It was nasty.


If you say that PersonY needs to learn to take a joke, I ask you: Why? I don't see any reason why they should. Instead some other people should "open up their sphincter" a bit and be more relaxed about trying NOT to do such jokes. Because to be honest .... "This is just a joke. If you can't take a joke, learn to deal with it." ... you dont want to seriously tell me this sentence for the rest of DJB lifetime (how long that ever will be), do you?

At the beginning it was fun, but after several years its getting lame to hear this on every occasion or event or complaints.

Good and easy way to get around it, eh? You can pull the biggest sh*t and yet say: "It was a joke! Everyone laugh!" Unfortunately (or not) for most this is getting way too obvious how overused and lame way to quickly get out of responsibility this is and makes this "excuse" / "explanation" and the person itself laughable. Its like saying those "bad" words. Try to say such a bad word to your mom and dad and I bet you won't even have the time to add "It was a joke" or "Your fault you cant take it!" I rather bet that some parts of your body will badly ache afterwards. :D


Constructive critic? Nah, its way better to whine. I have been given barely the chance from several people here to proof me that they did constructive critic.

1 constructive critic among the all the rest of weird stunts that are being pulled here are like this: With n -> [infinity]. Lim 1/n = 0 (zero, nix, null, nothing,..). Need way more constructive critic around here to make it all more balanced! Constructive critic - where are you? ;)



I get the feeling that several people around in the DJB are nothing but whiners irl (its the other one's fault!!! He / she should learn to take a joke!), additionally are crying for their mommy when you take away one of their lollies. "We changed it and took away your lolly!" - "Wuahaahaaa mommy! They are all stupid idiots Me want my lolly baaaaack!" Whiners. ALL whiners here! :D


So, who else wants cheese to his whine? I don't care if I was too blunt for some of you,... if you can't take it, it's your fault. Isnt it? ;) Or hey.. maybe it was just a joke ;)


And Morg! Freaking send me that log to sildrinhastur[at]googlemail[dot]com. :D It still hasn't arrived ;) And I want to work on that idea, because I believe it has quite some potential.





Edit:
Edith says: Comments on news posts are "Comments". Discussions? You want discussions? We have a MB. Its a way better platform to make a constructive discusssion than the news "comments". I repeat the word:
c o m m e n t.
This is not the same as "d i s c u s s i o n". ;)

Use this awezoom f0rum b04rd! THats one of the reasons we have it.



Edith says again: <3 Tarax. Seriously. I appreciate your post.


Edith says yet again: Funny all those icons I use. I love them! :D I want more!

Karel

11-07-2007 14:24:11

Ok...well, that was...um...yeah. I suggest this, Sil, go on IRC right now and call somebody random a loser. See what reaction you'll get. Seriously, how much can a person possibly tens of thousands of miles away can affect you by a simple comment? You mean to tell me you've never been called names IRL? You've never been made fun of? Ever? Please.
I think your real point is, people who are made fun of excessively IRL come here thinking they'll never see that again. Well, ideally that would be the case but we're humans, and by definition we're assholes. :P So, returning to my example, if that person will proceed to mock you and your family, call you names, or hop on a plane and come after you, then you know that person is way too sensitive and should get some anger management classes. If he takes one joke, and possibly appreciates the tone of your comment (ONLY if it's not something extremely vulgar, offensive, racist, you get the idea) I think the world is safe. ;)

Adien Falaut

11-07-2007 14:47:12

Ok...well, that was...um...yeah. I suggest this, Sil, go on IRC right now and call somebody random a loser. See what reaction you'll get. Seriously, how much can a person possibly tens of thousands of miles away can affect you by a simple comment? You mean to tell me you've never been called names IRL? You've never been made fun of? Ever? Please.
I think your real point is, people who are made fun of excessively IRL come here thinking they'll never see that again. Well, ideally that would be the case but we're humans, and by definition we're assholes. :P So, returning to my example, if that person will proceed to mock you and your family, call you names, or hop on a plane and come after you, then you know that person is way too sensitive and should get some anger management classes. If he takes one joke, and possibly appreciates the tone of your comment (ONLY if it's not something extremely vulgar, offensive, racist, you get the idea) I think the world is safe. ;)




That's so true!!!

Xayun Erinos

11-07-2007 16:47:30

Sil, ever heard the expression "If you can't take a joke, you shouldn't have joined"? It holds true for this club. If someone makes a crack on the newspage which - to anyone with a fully functioning brain cell - would never be construed as offensive, and the person or people it's aimed at actually do take offense, they really need to stop being retards. At the end of the day, you've taken a jibe from a person you will likely never meet, who has no effect on your life, and if you quit the DB that very day you would in all likelihood never hear from again. My solution? Grow up.

Censoring out newspage comments, I just don't agree with. Yes, we have a message board where discussions can go, but message boards tend to suck. We have a Brotherhood of Spam, for Christ's sake. Not only that, but I don't know if anyone's noticed that it's actually a hell of a lot easier to just say your piece on the newspage than navigating the forums. Given the average smarts of some of the people here, the newspage is far more practical.

It's already been pointed out that the other alternative is email, but....well...the same reason applies. Besides, if we say discussion has to be relegated to email, why is rather trivial stuff like "Congrats [Random DB Person who got medal/promo/comp win] you rock lolz!!!!" not to be barred as well? That would be more appropriate for an email, since the newspage is apparently for "pertinent" info. Please someone say that congratulatory remarks are for the newspage because it's more practical than sending an email or making a thread - because I'm sure I've heard the more practical argument somewhere already! :D

Halcyon

11-07-2007 18:43:40

1) <3 Sil.

2) Some people can't take a joke. Some people can't give a joke. Unless you actually know the person, and they know you and are on "good terms" most jokes are in poor taste anyways. There are enough IRC channels to hand out those "jokes".

3) People seem to be getting really upset about "censoring" as well. This isn't RL. Why get upset about it? Hey, if people are allowed to get upset and what not over this sort of thing (well within your rights) then also allow others the courtesy of getting upset when they don't take a joke well. And since some people do put in a ton of effort and work into this club, I think they are also entitled to their opinions on how this club and members within treat them

4) Yes, we have a Spam board. It's at the very bottom. General Discussion is right near the top. The two don't interact. In most "real" discussions, I don't see much in the terms of spam, if at all. Not anymore than some of the comments made on the news page. So, not sure exactly what the problem is there.

Tarax Kor

11-07-2007 19:03:48

Also I'd like to point out...most of the people I regularly trade 'insults' with are people who I know who can take it, and with whom I talk like that regularly. In essence...it's just the way we talk to each other, without any major offensive meaning behind it. Like with Beefcake.

Morgan

11-07-2007 19:34:13

Yeah you noob.

Sith Bloodfyre

11-07-2007 20:24:36

Nitemare has crotch crickets.

Tolter

11-07-2007 20:34:10

people need to grow a pair and learn not to take offense to crap. you can't go through life getting pissed off and mad and all the like because people made jokes about you.

plus its always fun to join in and go along with it, it makes the people who started it feel pretty ass retarted :)

Sildrin

11-07-2007 21:01:07

Sil, ever heard the expression "If you can't take a joke, you shouldn't have joined"? It holds true for this club. If someone makes a crack on the newspage which - to anyone with a fully functioning brain cell - would never be construed as offensive, and the person or people it's aimed at actually do take offense, they really need to stop being retards. At the end of the day, you've taken a jibe from a person you will likely never meet, who has no effect on your life, and if you quit the DB that very day you would in all likelihood never hear from again. My solution? Grow up.





No I haven't heard of this expression. And as far as I know this expression does not stand on the join form of this club:
"If you can't take a joke, can't take it that people insult you or laugh at you, don't join this club. In fact, we advice you to grow up."


And fully functioning brain cell... we are humans. As some here said: As human kind we also tend to be assholes. But this also inclines: Some people do feel hurt by such insults - as we are humans. ;)
I say that some people here can't respect the feelings of other people.


Oh btw ... I also get hurt by what some people say to me, even if its "just" irc. Your solution to me? Grow up? Says the Harry Potter boy to me. Ohh sorry,.. that was a joke - no hard feelings ;)



Additionally I don't mind about jokes. Or playing with people - to a certain extinct. Then it starts to get tasteless. If some here had at least the decency to realise when they stepped across the border and would stop then. But many don't. Additionally I am growing tired of hearing this lame "If you can't take a joke, you are wrong here." for every freaking ocasion! Is this the world formula, or why do I hear this with everything that is going on here?
Is it really that so many can't take a joke from a few people? Or is it rather, that a few people abuse the explanation "You can't take a joke" to simply go rampant over people they don't like or look down at? I simply say: its latter. ;) - I can only repeat myself: I don't mind if you do a joke from time to time, if then people overreact it is kinda foolish. But often we have the situation where this whole stuff is pushed WAY over a normal level. And then simply excusing yourself with: "He should grow up" is not the right way.

And as long as some people can't even talk normally in a constructive way with others where antipathy is involved, I think this niveau will stay at that of a kindergarden.


No hard feelings here... maybe I meant that as a joke ;)

Tarax Kor

11-07-2007 22:33:11

Sil, ever heard the expression "If you can't take a joke, you shouldn't have joined"? It holds true for this club. If someone makes a crack on the newspage which - to anyone with a fully functioning brain cell - would never be construed as offensive, and the person or people it's aimed at actually do take offense, they really need to stop being retards. At the end of the day, you've taken a jibe from a person you will likely never meet, who has no effect on your life, and if you quit the DB that very day you would in all likelihood never hear from again. My solution? Grow up.



Also, I'd like to comment on this.

Xayun, it comes down to what people have accepted to be as an organizational norm, and how their values/ideas fit within those set norms. If a new member just isn't used to the idea of a club being as lighthearted with their words as we are, they won't be able to accept it. It doesn't fit within their set of accepted norms.

We've got to realize that there are people that've been with us for a long time that still haven't adapted truly to the majority's way of thinking. They're still part of our membership, and shouldn't be alienated.

Jac Cotelin

11-07-2007 23:40:35

Also I'd like to point out...most of the people I regularly trade 'insults' with are people who I know who can take it, and with whom I talk like that regularly. In essence...it's just the way we talk to each other, without any major offensive meaning behind it. Like with Beefcake.



This is the most logical thing I think I've read in a week, and perhaps a good insight into the heart of the problem. A lot of times, when people post insulting or "funny" things on the comments, it's not in response to people they know or are friends with. It's like walking down the street, stopping someone you don't know at all and making fun of their conversation. You're going to get punched.

If people keep the jokes to venues they know the jokes will go over well in and targets that they know will actually get the joke then all is good....but when you go and try to say something (like making fun of another clan or someone in it) that would be hilarious in your own clan channel, but not quite so funny in the other's eyes because you have no relationship with them, then well, keep it to the clan channel.

I don't get ticked if BF cracks a joke on my news posts -- those are hilarious because he knows me and we know how to joke. ...but I do get ticked if some random asshat who I've never heard of or talked to rips on me.

Anonymous

12-07-2007 12:58:39

"2) Some people can't take a joke. Some people can't give a joke. Unless you actually know the person, and they know you and are on "good terms" most jokes are in poor taste anyways. There are enough IRC channels to hand out those "jokes"."

And yet, even when those jokes occur via an IRC channel or outside the DB news page or message forums, people still get upset and whiney. And then quit the DB in hissy fits, demanding action and stating their disbelief in individuals. Sure, a lot of jokes are in poor taste. But a lot of them are hilarious. Sure, the person on the other end of the joke becomes the laughing stock of the Brotherhood, probably for all time, but that has something more to do with that individuals reaction to the joke rather than the joke itself.

In any organization conflicts are bound to happen. I see no problem with keeping conflicts off the news page, as it can drive away potential membership. I don't agree with the whole "censor for the children" ideal, as the majority of active DB'ers are adults and not children. But yeah, keeping crap off the news page is alright with me. I still believe constructive criticism should be allowed, however.

Sure, people should think about how they might affect another person with what they're doing. But at the same time, this is real people in a real world. People need to grow thicker skin, plain and simple.

You are right, though, there are enough IRC channels to hand out these jokes. Clan channels are perfect places to make a mockery of someone. I agree that this kind of crap has no place on the DB news page. Private Clan channels is fine, however, for sure. I'm glad you agree with that.

Well, cya, Halc. :P