Empire vs Vong: The Showdown

Personally, i think the empire would have won. They were better organized and prepared for war. I think a limitless army of cloned soldiers would greatly influence it.

I agree. While I do not know as much about the Vong as I do the Empire I have read the novels and have gamemastered sessions involving the Vong in the New Jedi Order setting. I have wondered about this as recently as last week following a gaming session because while the Vong do real well against Force users they do not do nearly as well when their opponent just comes at them with a lot of firepower. I think that the Empire at its greatest would have been capable of dealing with them. In fact, had the Vong arrived earlier, it could well have kept the rebellion from succeeding. a la, we have a grave threat, we need to pull together, strength through untiy, blah, blah, blah. Having the Vong would have given the Empire an enemy to fight that they could shine against. The Empire would have thrived militarily and politically against the Vong.

Aye, Empire all the way

Yeah, use a Death Star on them.... adios, Vong.

Hmm.... I am not so sure... Yes, clone soldiers were probably nice and all, but the sheer power of the Yuuzhan Vong in their invasion would be enough to topple or at least critically cripple the Galactic Empire, even at the height of its power. I mean, I know one cannot compare the Imperial Remnant Starfleet to Palpatine's Starfleet, but the Vong did a decent job at decimating the Imperial capital and wiping out large parts of their fleet. They also managed to wipe out the entire Yevethan Race-- a very powerful group of aliens who themselves posed a threat to the galaxy. Likewise, they managed to defeat the Chiss and Hapan fleets as well (although the later was, mostly, the fault of a Jedi).

The very fact that the Vong managed to cripple or destroy the Imperials, Yevethans, Hutts, and the very heart of the New Republic--Coruscant--is enough to say that they would have sure as hell given the Galactic Empire a very close run for its money. I mean, the Vong managed to outpower most of greatest military minds and leaders of the era-- Luke Skywalker, Gilad Pellaeon, Han Solo, Cal Omas, Traest Kre'fey, Admiral Ackbar, Wedge Antilles, Boba Fett, Kyle Katarn, Corran Horn, etc.

In the end, however, I do believe the Empire would have risen victorious. However, I also believe that the Vong would have successfully been able to strike Coruscant and force Palpatine to move to one of his secretive planets (like Byss or something) to move back against the Vong. But they would have hit too fast for all the Empire to defend its Outer Rim territories, and probably would have easily made it to the Mid Rim before encountering any significant counter-strikes from the Empire.

You also have to take into account how the Vong invaded. They planned for a long time, and a few years prior to invasion had special agents move in to begin breaking up factions and such. If they invaded against the Galactic Empire, they would have probably sent in agents to incite more in favor of the rebellion and such to splinter Imperial factions some, or maybe convinced Imperials like Tarkin or Jerec or some other Moff/Warlord/Admiral/Adept to try seize power here and there. Grand Admiral Thrawn encountered the advanced invasion force as early as 9 ABY, and knew then that the only hope of Imperial survival when the Vong invaded was to reunify their forces. The reunified empire, of course, couldn't survive without siding with the Galactic Alliance.



So, anyways, I do think the Empire would have won, but they would have been severely crippled and may have most likely lost Coruscant or at least had Coruscant exceedingly damaged before defeating the Vong.

Geez, how long did you spend thinking about that one Scorps?

True enough, the Vong were sneaky in laying their plans before they attacked the New Republic. Frankly, however, I doubt that they could have as easily infiltrated the Empire, in part due to its heightened "security" and its anti-alien policies. Simply put, the Vong would have had far fewer opportunities to infiltrate in preparation of their invasion. Who knows, perhaps that is part of the reason the anti-alien policies were put in place by Palpatine when he had apparently had little of such a bent at the inception of the Empire.

One little superlaser, bye-bye Zonama Sekot. The New Republic was a fledgeling government when it was attacked, so it had a nice chunk bitten out of it. But the Empire would have kicked the Yuuzhan Vong in the teeth. They destroyed the Jedi, who had the Force and all of that, so they could have easily taken down a bunch of Force-dead massacists. If a world was Vongformed, they would either bombard it into glowing goop or just blow it up outright. And I'm not talking the Vong vs. the Starfleet, I'm talking every Imperial faction in the galaxy against these motherf*ckers.

One little superlaser, bye-bye Zonama Sekot. The New Republic was a fledgeling government when it was attacked, so it had a nice chunk bitten out of it. But the Empire would have kicked the Yuuzhan Vong in the teeth. They destroyed the Jedi, who had the Force and all of that, so they could have easily taken down a bunch of Force-dead massacists. If a world was Vongformed, they would either bombard it into glowing goop or just blow it up outright. And I'm not talking the Vong vs. the Starfleet, I'm talking every Imperial faction in the galaxy against these motherf*ckers.



I have to agree with Kal because as soon as they hit the rebs would not bother with the empire any more until the Vong were toast and not weakened like the New republic the Empire would have Absolutly crushed the Vong.
I think that is why they never attacked when the Empire was in power they chose to wait until the galaxy was weakened and ripe for invasion.

Geez, how long did you spend thinking about that one Scorps?



I got bored of reading a The Iliad so I decided to do this. Like 10 minutes. So blah.



@ BZ's argument--- Yes, but the Vong could make themselves look like humans, and they would not need to be human to incite rebellions on some rebellious worlds.

@Kal's argument: You can't use the argument that the Empire wiped out the Jedi as a reason why the Empire could fight the Vong. The Jedi Purge was the result of decades of subtle, secretive manueverings culminating in arguably the most Force-powerful invidual in galactic history attacking a relatively undefended Jedi Temple with legions of clonetroopers while Jedi commanders across the galaxy were surprised and betrayed by the very troops they were leading. Sith vs. Jedi is different than Empire vs. Vong. The Yuuzhan Vong themselves were doing a decent job at wiping out the New Jedi Order.


Now, I'm not saying the Empire would have lost, but they certainly wouldn't have crushed the Vong. And I sincerely doubt that every faction of the Empire would have stood loyaly beside Palpatine; the Imperials had a habit of pursuing their own interests when the opportunity arose. When the Vong attacked the galaxy, certain factions rose up to support them (see: Peace Brigade) or other entities chose to play both sides (see: Hutts), even though the latter were wiped out when the Vong found out they were helping both sides.

The Emperors rule was pretty absolute with very few high rankin defectors ever and If Grand admiral Thrawn was still alive he would out stratigize the Vong.
He is a Grand Admiral so he has comand over petty much everything.
With Thrawn in charge the Vong would have been history.

The reason the Vong gave the Jedi such a whooping was cause the Jedi needed the Force, which didn't work on the Vong. The Empire, however, was not limited in such a way.

The Empire defeated the Jedi because they had surprise and years of planning on their side, and the Sith Lord was in charge of both factions in the war.

The Vong, if they attacked the Empire, would have surprise and years of planning on THEIR side. Like I said, yes, they'd be defeated, but not after giving the Empire a hell of a time.


And Thrawn wasn't the only Grand Admiral, so he doesn't have control of pretty much everything. Vader held a lot of command, as did other Grand Admirals and Grand Moffs and such.

And there weren't a lot of defectors who tried to assert their power because, as you said, the Emperor's power was absolute. However, factor in a massive Yuuzhan Vong invasion wiping out a good deal of the Outer Rim worlds and immediately threatening the Mid Rim, stealing the attention of nearly the entire Imperial Starfleet, and you will have a good deal of Imperials who see a chance to take control for themselves (a few Grand Admirals, some Moffs, planetary governors, Generals and Admirals here and there, some Dark Jedi--like Jerec, perhaps--and others). Like the Hutts and the Peace Brigade did, they may try to strike a deal with the Vong to assert their own power and safety over their own systems.

The Empire defeated the Jedi because they had surprise and years of planning on their side, and the Sith Lord was in charge of both factions in the war.

The Vong, if they attacked the Empire, would have surprise and years of planning on THEIR side. Like I said, yes, they'd be defeated, but not after giving the Empire a hell of a time.
And Thrawn wasn't the only Grand Admiral, so he doesn't have control of pretty much everything. Vader held a lot of command, as did other Grand Admirals and Grand Moffs and such.

And there weren't a lot of defectors who tried to assert their power because, as you said, the Emperor's power was absolute. However, factor in a massive Yuuzhan Vong invasion wiping out a good deal of the Outer Rim worlds and immediately threatening the Mid Rim, stealing the attention of nearly the entire Imperial Starfleet, and you will have a good deal of Imperials who see a chance to take control for themselves (a few Grand Admirals, some Moffs, planetary governors, Generals and Admirals here and there, some Dark Jedi--like Jerec, perhaps--and others). Like the Hutts and the Peace Brigade did, they may try to strike a deal with the Vong to assert their own power and safety over their own systems.



Yes I am aware there were apparently 12 grand admirals however Thrawn was no doubt the Emperors favorite.
Unfortunalty your wrong about the Vong having surprise on their side as the Emperor was well aware of their existance and it was one of the reasons for such a massive military. It was also the reason he wanted the Outbound flight project stopped if I remeber so a bunch of jedi did not get captured by the Vong.
Interesting enough it may have been the reason for the second death star was he knew the Vong were coming and they would need all the weapons they could get.

Yes, the Emperor knew about the Yuuzhan Vong. Yes, when Thrawn tried to reunite the Empire, it was because he had learned of the Vong and knew the Remnant factions would never survive alone.

Neither, though, knew of the strength and ferocity of the Yuuzhan Vong. They knew they were dangerous, and that a large military force would be necessary to protect the Empire against them, but no one predicted that. I doubt anyone in the galaxy would have imagined any force being able to wipe out entire species and planets, dismantle civilization after civilization, defeat most military forces thrown at them, and take over and effectively change the surface of Coruscant--THE Galactic capital--in less than a decade. The Vong were something the Galaxy hadn't seen and didn't predict. Those who knew of them knew they'd be bad news, but not that bad.

lets not forget the Empire would have the same technological disadvantages as the New Republic had with aiming, locking on target and so on. At least in the first period of the war.

True, but the Empire's soldiers were grown for war. Trained for their entire years to do nothing but fight for the Empire. That kind of training would have been a major factor. Stormtroopers don't run away, they don't stop, and they're bloody hard to exterminate.

The Empire would have felt the hurt from the Vong invasion, of course, and it would have wounded them. However, they would still fair far better than the New Republic did. The Remnant forces may have been in danger of being wiped out, but the Empire, at full strength, would have won.

And the Vong wouldn't have had surprise on their side. Palpatine was aware of the Vong. He was well-defended against them. Had they attacked and started ripping up worlds, then the galaxy would see a greater evil and side with the rulers rather than the killers. Every rebellious faction would have sided with them. The Empire, the Rebellion, Black Sun, everyone. Then, after the Vong lost, Palpy would have used the new military and political strength they had acquired to put down anyone who wanted to say "my turn".

Such a heated debate! Let's call PBS and see if they'll air it late at night when no one is watching!

Palpatine and Thrawn and all of them only knew that something dangerous existed outside of the galaxy and was eventually poised to attack. They did not know WHEN they'd attack, HOW they'd attack, WHERE they would begin their attack, WHAT the goal of their attack was, and what the strength of the attack force would be. They predicted an attack would be within the near future (read: before 50 ABY, probably) and they knew that they were dangerous. They knew nothing else. Thus, they would have been caught by surprise if the full force of the Yuuzhan Vong decided to unleash itself on Tarkin's systems and wipe out his Death Star before he even got to scare the Rebel Alliance with it and let Skywalker blow it up.

And he was hardly well-defended against them. Palpatine never created any wide-spread defense system to ward off any extra-galactic attack.

And, again, I make reference to the fact that various factions actually played both sides or sided with the Vong. Any ambitious individual, wickedly greedy individual, and people who really hated Palpatine (like, say, one of those persons whose family was wiped out by the Empire or something similar to the histories of many Rebels) may have seen fit to try strike a deal with the Vong to 1.) Try keep their planets safe and 2.) Remove Palpatine from power to possible 3.) Gain more power for themselves.

Now, Mon Mothma would have realized it was a choice between two evils and, yes, probably would have spoken solidarity with the Empire against the Vong. However, the Rebellion would never have sided with Palpatine's Empire. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" wouldn't exactly apply. The hatred of Palpatine and the atrocities he committed were so great in the eyes of the Rebels that most would never have approved any sort of formal agreement with them-- likewise, the Emperor and hard-line Imperials would have never agreed to "helping eachother out" like the Imperial Remnant and New Republic did after Bastion was sacked. The two sides would probably have unofficially agreed to stop firing on each other for the time being and protect themselves from the Vong.

And what new military and political strength would Palpatine get? His armies would have already held more numbers than those of the Vong. He was already the great dictator of the galaxy; in A New Hope he had disbanded the Imperial Senate and completely moved control of the star systems into the hands of his puppets, the Moffs. His power was already absolute. If you disagreed with him or if he didn't like you, you were declared a "rebel" and an enemy of the state and executed anywhere from one to ten times. Creating the first Death Star was to scare away the growing rebel sentiments across the galaxy and enforce a "rule by fear" galaxy-wide. The Second Death Star was to now counter the ever-growing power of the Rebel Alliance, though some will say (and it is possibly true) that he was creating the Second not only to help eradicate the Rebels, but also to defend against a possible Vong invasion.

Prince Xizor and Black Sun, knowing them, may have possibly attempted striking a deal with the Yuuzhan Vong. Xizor would probably be more than happy to attempt to hand over Darth Vader to the Vong--as he was always looking for a way to get rid of his rival, and vice versa--and probably would have seen this opportunity to get rid of Palpatine and gain strength himself. He most likely would have been like the Hutts-- playing both sides. However, his final motives would have probably been to strike a deal with the Vong and betray Palpatine and Vader. He perhaps might have been successful with Vader, but--as I have said in other posts--I sincerely doubt Palpatine would have been killed, and would have likely gotten rid of Xizor and Black Sun for the betrayal. i'm just saying, Black Sun works for money and power, and some huge alien force wiping out the Black Prince's rival and removing the only man in the galaxy man powerful than he probably would have been tempting.
---In fact, during the Yuuzhan Vong War, the disorganized and slightly weakened Black Sun did not cease attacks against the Jedi Order and the New Republic.

And, as I have mentioned in other posts, extremely ambitious Imperials and radical Rebels may have formed Peace Brigade-like troops to support the Vong and increase their own power and chances of survival.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Peace_Brigade

Go read up on 'em. Formed almost exactly after the war began. Not just a "few" people were in it. They didn't realize that the Vong would not grant them mercy until much later in the war, and even after the Galaxy realized that mercy from the Vong was pretty impossible, the Peace Brigade still managed to hang on, with people like Senator Pwoe--who attempted to seize the Chief of State position after the Fall of Coruscant--tried to sign a peace treaty with the Peace Brigade (only to be arrested when New Republic forces captured the Peace Brigade's capital, Ylesia).

Now, with so many Imperials still holding considerable power and so many Rebels really, desperately wanting Palpatine gone (note: as I side, the "big ones" like Mothma, Leia, etc. would probably not advocate siding with the Vong), it is quite likely that a more powerful version of the Peace Brigade would emerge, with several ambitious Imperial warlords/moffs/admirals/etc. rising to try assert their own power.

As I said, when the Empire was victorious, those who joined the Vong would probably all be executed, but the Empire would not be stronger-- it would, in fact, be weaker, and the threat of full rebellion might be greater if the Vong threat was eradicated. Someone could easily move to take out Palpatine and put someone else in charge of the Empire, and maybe--just in case the Vong attacked again or something--work out some deal with the rebel forces (Speculation; a post-Vong Empire/Rebellion thing could really go in multiple directions).




@ Aabs:
Yeah, yeah. If only it were a Krath Debate.

Note: Since I can't write long posts for the Run-On anymore, YOU get to bear the brunt of my weekly long post. So nyah. >:)