versus

I think Sidious will win

Sidious hands-down. He has the ability to both destroy starfleets and reincarnate himself with the Force. Plus his lightning would and did, if I recall, destroy Vader's life support.

I got the feeling that Sidious was always just playing with Anakin/Vader. Unless Sidious got real over-confident and let his guard down (as in ROTJ) Vader would not have a chance. By the way, it's not like I am happy about that but I cannot see it any other way.

Sidious has always been better then Vader, though not Anakin. I think that if Anakin hadn't gotten BBQ'd and learned lightning and other sith powers that require flesh to use Sidious would have been afraid of Vader

I see your point but would suggest that it could well be different. I do not think Anakin would have ever reached a level of maturity where he would could challenge Sidious...ever. While his raw power (had he not been BBQ'd and therefore dependant on Sidious) I think Sidious would have always had measures protecting himself and was quite formidable in his own right. In a nutshell, Anakin lacks the maturity level to achieve the consistenct needed to achieve Sidous' mastery.

The fact that he was so naturally talented is precisely what would preclude him from gaining true mastery. There is an element of him not having to work as hard and, therefore, not getting the experience and maturity of others who did.

Anakin is like the gift professional athelete that spend every penny he has and is broke even though he makes big bank. Sidious is a Hall of Famer. While anyone can beat anyone on any given day, Sidious would own Anakin 9999 out of 10,000.

But, as for the original thread, I think we agree that Sidious pwns.

I think pre-suit vader would win he was pretty strong.And he did take on an entire temple full of jedi.

Yes, pre-suit vader would defeat Darth Sidious, however post-suit vader, Sidious would win.

Yes, GL did say that Vader was twice the strength of Sidious before the whole BBQ thing happened. Even afterwards, he was almost was strong as Sidious. I'd like to see any other Force User lose that much of his body and be that strong.

Tulak Hord??

Where'd you get that from, Gala?

well I havent reda his bio yet but from what I've heard....hes a skeleton. He must of had flesh in sometime and they say he is the greatest saber-weilder of all time.

Undead dark jedi saber master -- that busts ass man!!!

They tried wit Ragnos, why not Tulak? I'd rather see him pop out of a grave than some blue guy wit horns and pointy little teeth.

Oh, and this one needs a body of his own. Not like Ragnos, who took over Tavion.

umm...


SPOILER ALERT:


Anakin did kill Sidious.
At the end of Return of the Jedi, he tosses him down a shaft and kills him.

Discussion about over.

Your point is well made. However, the questions was phrased in terms of an "all out brawl." I doubtful as to whether what Anakin/Vader did to the Emperor was part of an "all out brawl" between the two of them.

wow Muz why did you spoil it for me...hear I'm thinkin that Leia killed Sidious. DAMN YOU HERALD!!!

Sidious without a doubt, no contest.

Obviously Sidious would win. He would probably die a few times doing it, but he can reincarnate or whatever the f*ck you call it. Did it in Dark Empire.

Kal what are you smoking, he wouldn't die man

Pre-suit, Darth Vader, Anakin Skywalker, The Chosen One, was twice as powerful as Darth Sidious. Therefore, Sidious would die. Depending on the timeline of this fight, however, Vader without the suit would mean that Sidious hadn't cracked the secret to the whole reincarnation thing. Come to think of it, Vader would win.

Oh, and I'm smoking your stash, Arc. Learn to hide it better. :w00t:

Before Luke convinced Vader that he was once good, Sidious would have won. Even pre-suit, Anakin was reliant on Sidious. Anakin was too immature for this kind of thing. Sidious would use Anakin as a play toy, as Anakin had very little control fo the force, his powers were in combat.

The rest is history because we know that Anakin did kill the Emperor, though unceremoniously. Luke should have died though.

[EDIT: Sidious also had his Kyber Crystal... Sidous FTW!]

Well, that's me told

Xar'Khan or anyone else:

Please tell me in detail what the Kyber crystal does. I know what it "is" and where it was first mentioned in the Star wars Universe, but what does it do?

If you are familiar with the rules for Wizards of the Coast d20 roleplaying game, please tell me in terms of that or make reference to one of the books.

I have been unable to find specific rules. I recall reading somewhere that possessionn of teh Kyber Crystal gaev =2 to all Force related feats/skills. I cannot find where I read that, if I ever really did.

Thanks.

The Kaiburr crystal was a powerful glowing Force relic located on the planet Mimban. Local legend said that the god Pomojema used the crystal to heal the wounded, but in reality it was the Force that was responsible. The crimson-colored gem had the ability to enhance Force powers a thousandfold.

[EDIT: As sourced from Wookieepedia]
[EDIT#2: I have also found that the Kyber Crystal may be the big glowing crystal ball that Amidala gives to Boss Nass at the end of TPM. I do not believe this to be true though.]

The Kaiburr crystal was initially called the Kyber crystal.

Thanks for the information but I knew all of what you set forth in the first paragraph from "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" by Alan Dean Foster. I was asking about its effect on the wielder vis a vis the role playing genre.

Yeah, well that's all I could find. I am not sure anyone knows how it effects the user and what advantages and disadvantages it has. Perhaps we should ask George

Lets get back to the point please. :@

now are we talking about Pre-suit Vader or In-suit Vader?? If it is Pre-suit, then Vader would waste sidious. You heard Sidious say it many times. If it is Post-suit Vader then Sidious would win because of his ability to move. <_<

Just because Sidious said something means nothing at all. His primary mode of operation was deception. He could have been (was probably) pumping Anakin up to make him i) confident so Anakin would be a bigger help in Sidious' plans; ii) test Anakin's loyalty by making Anakin think he is more powerful in order to see what Anakin would do with it; iii) make Anakin over-confident so if he did make a move it would be more likely to be one without sufficient preparation; iv) all of the above; v) all of the above and even more because Sidious pwns.

The correct answer is "v."

Consider the probablility that Sidious deliberately sent Anakin to Mustafar to suffer the fate that he did because Sidious no longer needed pre-suit Anakin. Instead, he needed the leash that the Vader suit became. Sidious knew that if the Jedi Council could not reign Anakin in from his silliness then Anakin would likely be a perpetual problem once Sidious had used him to assist in neutralizing the Separatists and assisting in the destruction of the Jedi...Use Anakin then put his c**k in a sealed jar. Bingo! Who got punked?!

I hate the guy (Sidious). He's a politician. But, one has to acknowledge superior planning, power and execution when one sees it. Anakin was an impetuous, disengenuous, mewling crybaby. Such children always fall to the least bit of maturity.

By the way, I can scowl too. See... :@

I agree with Baron Zarco, in case anyone cares

In my opinion, Ani was sent to Mustafar to plunge him deeper into despair. If you read the book Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader, Sidious is pissed cuz Ani is disappointing post-c**k-in-jar.

AHHHHH CRAP!!!!

I accidently voted for vader, but Sidious would win hands-down.

Before Luke convinced Vader that he was once good, Sidious would have won. Even pre-suit, Anakin was reliant on Sidious. Anakin was too immature for this kind of thing. Sidious would use Anakin as a play toy, as Anakin had very little control fo the force, his powers were in combat.

The rest is history because we know that Anakin did kill the Emperor, though unceremoniously. Luke should have died though.

[EDIT: Sidious also had his Kyber Crystal... Sidous FTW!]



Uh... could I ask where Sidious got this crystal? I really only heard of it being on Mimban.

Uh... could I ask where Sidious got this crystal? I really only heard of it being on Mimban.


what crystal lol XD

The Kyber crystal.

I'm sorry I just don't know what that is :/

The Kyber crystal (also spelled Khybyrr I think) is a red gem that focuses the Force (some say Dark Side) that, I believe was first introduced in the book "Splinter of the Miind's Eye" by Alan Dean Foster back between ANH and ESB ifmy memory is correct. There is also mention of it in the roleplaying game put out by Wizards of the Coast. I speculate, but have no proof other than the two items being associated with the planet Mimban, that the "Orb of Pomojema" mentioned in the House Ektrosis possessions and the so-called Kyber crystal are one and the same.

As I recall reading, the Emperor sent Vader to get the Kaiburr crystal. But if he already had one, why would he send Vader for it? I have seen no mention of it in anything I have read, so as far as I know, Sidious never had one.

If I'm wrong, correct me.

Sidous would own Vader all the way, he'd force Vader onto the floor with lightning like with Luke, and then just knock out Vader's life support. One dead man in a suit.

in the cannon Dark Side compendium Sidious writes about inserting a fatal flaw into your creations that only you know how to exploit.. *thinks he had a "vader off switch" somewhere on that sweet throne of his*
so yeah.. im pretty sure old Palpy would win. =)