Did Mace Really beat Palps
Lucian
19-08-2005 14:58:34
did palpatine let mace beat him so that anakin would intervene? or did mace really whup his ass
Muz Ashen
19-08-2005 16:31:40
I have heard that in the book, it makes it seem that Palpy was playing Mace like a pinball game.
From what i saw in the movie, however, it looked like Mace had Palpatine pretty much at his mercy.
Lucian
19-08-2005 16:38:17
I have heard that in the book, it makes it seem that Palpy was playing Mace like a pinball game.
From what i saw in the movie, however, it looked like Mace had Palpatine pretty much at his mercy.
thats why im so damn confused
Halcyon
19-08-2005 16:44:53
If you had to choose...you would of course go with the movie version, as some things were changed from the time the book was written and the movie finalized.
*shrug*
Ood Bnar
23-08-2005 14:05:54
but if you look at the movie, you realise that after anakin made his decision palpatine directly gets up and is instantly recovered. he even walks to a mirror to check his face and rearange his clothes! that isn't the behavior of a man that was defeated, that is behavior of a strong person that wasn't scared. he knew the outcome, or had accepted his death.
Lucian
25-08-2005 08:47:18
but if you look at the movie, you realise that after anakin made his decision palpatine directly gets up and is instantly recovered. he even walks to a mirror to check his face and rearange his clothes! that isn't the behavior of a man that was defeated, that is behavior of a strong person that wasn't scared. he knew the outcome, or had accepted his death.
yes
Revenant
25-08-2005 13:37:35
palpatine was beating all over windu until anakin walked in the door. seems pretty conclusive to me.
Muz Ashen
25-08-2005 20:34:06
the last time i watched it, Palpy was on the floor, getting his face cooked by his lightning reflected at him by Mace before Ani walked in.
Yeah, him 'giving up' and collapsing was bull, but if Ani didn't cut Mace off, I think there'd be a different body at the sidewalk.
Macron Sadow
25-08-2005 20:39:31
here's a thought. if you read the lucas arts SW website, they clearly state that palp's face got wrecked by the reflected lightning.
Lucian
27-08-2005 14:59:25
here's a thought. if you read the lucas arts SW website, they clearly state that palp's face got wrecked by the reflected lightning.
yeah i think he knew windu would counter it and anakin would have no choice but to intervene
Ethen
27-08-2005 18:31:08
I am wondering if Palpatine was really that strong though? I mean I heard one person say that Palps was even responsible for the finding of Anakin in some wierd way. I think people are way way way over exceeding his powers, I mean look how he died, if he was so good at forseeing and [Expletive Deleted] like that he would have foresaw Vaders switch, so he clearly wasn't the most powerful in the Galaxy, I am going wiht what I saw in the movie.
Ood Bnar
10-09-2005 11:36:47
yeah, but didn't palpatine knew at that time that he would ressurect in a clone! so he didn't really die, his body did! i believe he knew of the possibility of Vader betraying him, but wasn't sure. like yoda says: "always in motion the future is!"
so maybe palps saw the version of the future where vader betrayed him but luke saved him.
Lanius Sin
10-09-2005 17:04:31
I think, though not physical, Palps was the most powerfull. Mace had a "one track mind" when it came to it (kill the bad guy) but the emperor had it all planed (sending anakin the force mesege to come save him/ the trade federation) . strategy and wisdom are a big part of power... (prowd to be sith)
Ood Bnar
10-09-2005 17:06:23
yeah, you're right about the planning thing. but you also have to admit that by planning in advance your weakness is the fact that you don't improvise
Lanius Sin
10-09-2005 17:11:38
good debate dude. your point is valid. its a hard one but i gotta side with the winner. wining is, afterall, the ultimate achievment.
Ood Bnar
10-09-2005 18:05:09
yeah, in the end palpatine won and lost due to his arrogance(dark empire). but his legacy will allways remain
Lanius Sin
10-09-2005 18:11:48
yep the three books of the dark side compendium still teach many. anyway he beats yoda and yoda is ment to be the bad assed jedi kung-fu knight person. (the only reason mace got anywhere close is that his saber style draws greatly from the dark side and emotions n stuff (ooh getting tecnical here)
Ood Bnar
10-09-2005 18:13:43
if that's technical then you don't know technical. that is just an argument to base your statement on
Lanius Sin
10-09-2005 18:15:09
I donno, its my birthday and im drunk so i win...lol... jk
Ood Bnar
10-09-2005 18:17:47
ok, you win. let's continue tomorow, when it isn't you're birthday anymore and you have a hangover
Lanius Sin
10-09-2005 18:19:38
lol... but i wont win then (u see it all depends on if i win or not)
Aabsdu
10-09-2005 21:49:41
I think that Mace was the stronger and certinly would have won if not for Anakin. Mace was stronger all the time, and was ready to kill Palpatine easily. Once upon a time, Palpatine probably was stronger,but after decades of hiding and pretending to be normal he was weak(not to mention that he was VERY old).
Palppy realized he was beat when Mace disarmed him, and his cries were real cries. He realized that Mace was better.
Mace lost because in the heat of the moment, he was bewildered and amazed at Anakin's actions, and Palppy used that distraction to kill the master.
This is what I think.
Ood Bnar
11-09-2005 05:07:33
you have a valid point there! but how could the weak old man regain his powers and destroy mace as soon as anakin switched to the dark side?
Aabsdu
11-09-2005 07:17:53
That's a valid agurment(hehe), I think that he was saving some power foor that moment only. Palp was certain Anakin would turn and help him, but that didn't top him from being a bit scared when on the brink of death. We did see how much strenght and such it took for that last blast of energy.
That leads to yet another topic Lucas ailed to finalize. At the beginning we see Anskin fight and wonder for minutes rather or not to kill Dooku, and in the end he does. What was so much easier about deciding to kill Mace from killing Dooku?
Lanius Sin
11-09-2005 08:13:50
i think its 'cos mace was going to kill his father figure or something like that. Anakin has daddie issues..hehe
Lucian
11-09-2005 11:59:18
you have a valid point there! but how could the weak old man regain his powers and destroy mace as soon as anakin switched to the dark side?
maybe by some chance palps didnt have his crystal or he didnt use its power
Ood Bnar
11-09-2005 12:04:28
his crystal?
what have i missed! did palpatine have a crystal?
Lucian
11-09-2005 12:17:41
his crystal?
what have i missed! did palpatine have a crystal?
apparently thats what the people on the official star wars forums are saying
Ood Bnar
11-09-2005 15:32:33
wich forums do you refer to?
I don't recall ever having heard of a crystal connected to Palpatine.
In what context was it used?
Aabsdu
11-09-2005 17:24:38
The was no [Expletive Deleted F-word]ing crystal. Those star wars nerds that are saying so are talking bull[Expletive Deleted]!
(why I curse when they will only be deleted I don't know)
Ood Bnar
11-09-2005 17:26:53
1. you curse because it's a [Expletive Deleted F-word]ing habit
2. i thought as much! the crystal argument was wrong.
Aabsdu
11-09-2005 22:03:31
[Expletive Deleted F-word]ing nerds
(and there are a lot of those, I'm a bit of one, but these are the ones that are so nerdy there're idiotic)
Lucian
12-09-2005 15:30:15
i apologize i was wrong im not a nerd nerds are obsessed im just very passionate
Aabsdu
12-09-2005 19:40:03
I like Star Wars A LOT, but not so much that I make up things that deal more with, *gulp*, Star Trek then they do with Star Wars.
Syrus Korodin
12-09-2005 21:57:54
My general idea is that Palp would have killed Mace one way or the other. Note that as soon as Mace got his hand cut off Palp was up and at it with the force lightning. That displays, to me at least, that he was hiding his power to some degree.
Also, I think that if Anakin wasn't in the area the battle would still have gone to Palpatine. The scene where Mace raises his saber behind him to strike is where I was thinking "time for lightning".
Palpatine was much stronger than Mace on the level of Force Prowess and would have done something with it to kill him.
My two cents, lads.
Aabsdu
12-09-2005 22:10:39
And they are good two cents. No problems when I tried to cask them at the local bank.
Eh?
Kaine Mandaala
12-09-2005 22:34:02
Ah, the crystal. So much has been said.
kamikz
I have read somewhere that it's a kyber crystal that is mostly the power from Sidious, is this true or is it SS bull[Expletive Deleted]?
Also I think SS has stated that GL has made Star Wars out of his " visions". Is this also something that SS have made up cause I know you can't trust SS. Or has GL himself said that?
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Ast Rofan
Palpatine has a red crystal, anything else is from EU or is SS bull[Expletive Deleted]
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Ushgarak
Yup, no such thing. Closed.
Great, but then...
Grand Moff Rob
Date Posted: Jun 26, 2002 08:36 PM
The correct answer: the Kyber(sp) Crystal. I believe that Lucas is sticking with his original idea of the Crystal. Notice what is on Palpatine's desk: he has a couple of identical ornaments, one of which is likely the Crystal. Anytime a Jedi is in the room (other than Anakin), Palpatine keeps the crystal between him and the Jedi.
Followed closely by...
ObiWanT
Date Posted: Jun 26, 2002 09:00 PM
And another thing - if using the crystal artificially elevated his count then surely that would cause some significant disturbance in the force? If you read the EU then most things considered "unnatural" such as cloning create noticable, localised disturbances in the force. So why can't a Jedi as powerful as Yoda sense that or is Palpatine clouding that too somehow?
And if he never displays the crystal around Anakin then surely he should be able to sense Palpatine's strength in the force or is Anakin really that out of tune?
And then...
Revenge of Darth Krispies
Date Posted: Jun 26, 2002 09:00 PM
<< it's a possible explanation. >>
Well, there are several flaws with this theory.
One is that if Palpatine keeps it between himself and Jedi on his desk, then the Jedi would have access to its enhancing abilities as well. If you were going to say that he keeps it in his pocket or on a chain around his neck, I could maybe see that. But leaving it in the open just means that any Force-sensitive can use it.
Another is that it makes no sense for him NOT to use it against Anakin, as you suggest. Anakin is the Jedi he's intending to subvert. Why wouldn't he use the powers of the crystal to further break down his will?
Finally, as ObiWanT points out, its midichlorians that give Jedi access to the Force, and they're inside living cells. How are they affected by an inanimate crystal?
Essentially, further reading on the forum shows that they're drawing from the Kaliburr crystal in Splinter Of The Mind's Eye and drawing the conclusion that Palpatine had one, making him more powerful, blah blah blah.
I don't quite believe that. I think Palpatine was just that powerful. I think he was toying with Mace Windu, and though some say the acting in that segment was horridly cheesy, I think it plays out exactly what is going on:
Palpatine is so damned powerful, so damned evil, he doesn't need to take the fight seriously. He's winning, regardless of how it looks, and he's all too aware of it.
Aabsdu
13-09-2005 09:15:28
It wasn't us that came up with the crystal theory, in fact, I think most of us think the whole crystal thing is bull, but that does clear up the question as to where that whole thing came from.
Kaine Mandaala
13-09-2005 12:13:25
I know you all didn't come up with the theory... I'm just saying everyone's talking about it.
Aabsdu
13-09-2005 13:23:48
To tell the truth,I'd never heard that theory untuil on this board, but yeah, it's total bull
Lucian
14-09-2005 15:33:48
i conclude the crystal is crap complete crap but i just assumed he had one and on the star wars doumentaries (might be on the trilogy bonus disk, ill check i havent watched it in a while) it says something like "holy grail of the jedi the kyber crystal" or at least thats what im hearing in my mind
Aabsdu
14-09-2005 20:47:35
From everything I've ever heard, the only crystals I've heard of are the ones in your lightsaber.
Drodik alTor
14-09-2005 23:58:29
i conclude the crystal is crap complete crap but i just assumed he had one and on the star wars doumentaries (might be on the trilogy bonus disk, ill check i havent watched it in a while) it says something like "holy grail of the jedi the kyber crystal" or at least thats what im hearing in my mind
Ive heard of that. There was like a book in the late 70's or early 80's about that crystal.
Aabsdu
15-09-2005 09:35:16
Well the time period alone explains it.
hehe
Kaine Mandaala
15-09-2005 16:10:03
Ive heard of that. There was like a book in the late 70's or early 80's about that crystal.
Splinter Of The Mind's Eye.
Bridged the time between ANH and ESB. It was the first official piece of EU not written by Lucas.
Not that I really think they're the best source for info you can check out Wikipedia's entry
here.
Lucian
15-09-2005 16:38:53
yeah the crystal thing is in the beginning of the empire of dreams documentary on the bonus material on the original trilogy
Aabsdu
15-09-2005 22:29:00
I still don't think there was any dumb crystal
Lucian
16-09-2005 15:19:04
it exists but i dont think he had it
Ood Bnar
16-09-2005 17:48:11
The Kaiburr Crystal
a red gemstone capable of enhancing the user's Force strength, the Kaiburr Crystal increased the holder's perception of the Force, and this effect was magnified with larger portions of the crystal. Luke felt the gem's power with just a shard that was held by Halla. When he gained control of the entire gem, its power was revealed as a healing power. It healed the various mortal injuries Luke sustained in his battle with Darth Vader inside the Temple of Pomojema, as well as providing a link to the spirit of Obi-Wan Kenobi, which guided Luke's hand in the battle. Luke later used the power to help heal Leia's wounds. Halla maded the connection between the crystal's power and the rumors of Pomojema's priests performing healing miracles. Upon leaving Circarpous V, Luke gave control of the crystal to Halla, who held onto it. Luke's studies into Jedi lore also revealed that kaiburr crystals were the most powerful stones that could be used in the creation of lightsabers. However, the power of the Crystal was limited, and diminished greatly as it was moved farther from the Temple of Pomojema.
Kaine Mandaala
16-09-2005 18:11:08
Which means if Palpatine did have one, it's useless.
Mimban (Circarpous V) is pretty far from Coruscant.
Thanks Ood!
Ood Bnar
17-09-2005 08:38:46
no problem, just thought to give some clarification about the crystal.
Lucian
17-09-2005 11:14:56
yes thanks for clearing up my mistake
Ood Bnar
18-09-2005 04:02:56
no problem, everyone can make a mistake
raven8
28-11-2005 12:31:21
i think palpatine let him beat him.deceit.
Sephiroth Kali
01-12-2005 12:44:47
Watch the scene very carefuly, wacth his eyes. That tells the whole story.
Uzbad
01-12-2005 18:24:44
Does it matter? It worked out in the end.
Sephiroth Kali
02-12-2005 07:53:30
No it didn't. Palpatine didn't kill Yoda when he should have and The Emperor dies. How is that working out?
Ood Bnar
02-12-2005 10:55:36
In the ends everything returns to chaos, the civil war left the universe in shatters. the jedi order is destroyed.
it is time for a more pure democracy to be born, a place that would be what the old republic should have been.
Muz Ashen
02-12-2005 12:39:32
Democracy?
What, you going lightie on us, Ood?
Sephiroth Kali
02-12-2005 12:48:09
I agree. Kill Him.
Uzbad
02-12-2005 21:23:53
Nah. Dont kill him. But it is more exciting for the DB if there are lighties around to kill.
Ood Bnar
03-12-2005 06:38:51
i'm not going lightie, i am just saying that it would be more fun to corrupt a more pure democracy.
it gives us a challenge
Diablos
03-12-2005 07:13:35
I like all this talk of corruption but the democracy part isn't really my thing.