Darth Vader VS. Darth Maul

This is a what if question. If Darth Vader (Before the suit) were to take on Darth Maul who would win?

I say Vader, he used the force in conjuction with his lightsaber skills, Maul didn't. That is what would have given Vader the advantage.

go maul athough i think vader would win maul has a chance

Well considering Maul lost to Obi-Wan the Padawan and Anakin managed a good fight against Obi-Wan the Jedi Master I'm going to go with Anakin.

Eh, Maul wouldn't have stood a chance. Vader would have offed him like he did Cin Dralleg

Before the sui? Vader for sure. Maul was all fancy lightsaber moves. Vader showed he could twirl a lightsaber around with the best of them, and knew how to use force powers.

I'd say Maul. He only lost 'cause he was got arrogant. He had the skills, so he might be able to take Anakin.

You don't seem to get it Ark. Obi the Apprentice matched Mauls skills, Obi the Jedi Master matched and overcame Vaders. They both lost because they were arrogant and overestimated there powers as seems to be the sith tradition. They would both be arrogant in battle, but Anakin had superious lightsaber and force power skills giving him the advantage.

Exactly...

PADAWAN Obi-Wan v Darth Maul: Essentially an even match... Darth Maul was probably the better... lost due to overconfidence and arrogance.

MASTER Obi-Wan v Darth Vader: Essentially an even match... Anakin lost due to overconfidence ("You underestimate my power!" *jump* "Ahhhh! Dammit!" = Overconfidence)

Oh and just wait for Dark Lord: Rise of Darth Vader in a couple of months... that books going to set the record straight on what sort of a total badass suited Darth Vader is. No more pussy stories of "he was better without the suit"... he'll be kicking the crap out of Jedi left, right and center.

He said Dammit, hmmm....seemed to miss that part.

He didn't say it, but he was sure as hell thinking it as his ass caught fire.

I can't wait for the Vader book too, I also ordered some Vader ultimate guide, should be here soon.

Obi was nearly a master of his combat form when he faced Maul, he switched forms after killing the Sith Lord. Though nearly a master Obi was still bested and barely came out with the win, but at the price of his master.

Obi mastered the form he took to after Qui-gon's death and fought anakin with it. Winning, but again, not without a price.

Hmmmm.....

Obi didn't have one form. thats why the council chose him to fight grevious, because Obi's fighting styles could not be learned because they were not the same, they couldn't be predicted.

You don't seem to get it Ark. Obi the Apprentice matched Mauls skills, Obi the Jedi Master matched and overcame Vaders. They both lost because they were arrogant and overestimated there powers as seems to be the sith tradition. They would both be arrogant in battle, but Anakin had superious lightsaber and force power skills giving him the advantage.




Whoops, I didn't realize that.

No prob : P I just want all the people that are voting for Maul because he was a bad ass to realize that Vader was a bigger badass. He like conquered the galaxy.

maul was definately killed too early he was cool. but if maul kicked ass then vader chewed it up and spat it out. can't wait for dark lord but i think it's been delayed til feb '06 in the uk

I'd day Vader, vader hated himself and maul hated evrything but himself and the strongest hatred comes from a hatred of onself. vader states this to maul when maul is resurected in the star wars comic. vader kills maul... nuf said

Ok, so it's evident that Vader would win this fight, but in Maul's defense (he's still one of my favorites) when he lost to Padawan Obi-Wan Kenobi he had just killed Jedi Knight Qui Gon Jinn. That battle probably took a lot out of Maul, even though he didn't show it and ended up arrogant (don't they all?).

I'd say Maul, mainly cause if the two were to fight it'd have to have happened when anakin was 9

lol
but if you read the books, maul himself was stronger than sidiuos, because sidious trained maul, maul had to "relieve himself of certain powers" in the books also, vader's hatred is not as strong as maul's passion to be the greatest, and his passion to do his master's bidding, no matter how stupid the mission is (read darth maul shadow hunter )

okay get this, Maul killed ONE Jedi Master and had enough energy taken out of him to lose to an apprentice. Okay now look at this, ANAKIN killed HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of Jedi Apprentice to Master, in one day then within a time span of lets say 24 hours ended up fighting Kenobi. Maul was strong don't get me wrong, but he was not powerful enough to conquer two Jedi let alone the entire galaxy, simply b/c he would have had to end up facing the Jedi Temple and he wouldn't have stood a chance against them let alone Cin and Mace. End of Discussion. Vader is stronger, you cannot vote for someone based on looks and weapons, you have to vote for them based on what they did, Maul kicked ass and killed a Jedi Master, Anakin kicked ass and killed Thousands of them, hmmmmm hard choice.

technically you don't know how many vader killed, there were an army of clone troopers with him in the temple.

Okay there were at least 5 thousand Jedi in the temple, lets say the clones killed 3 thousand of them, that leaves at least 2000 left for Anakin. yes they had an entire army, but it takes over 5 clones to take down one jedi and there were lots of jedi there, Ani is better.

Vader would win, but I still prefer Maul cause he has a double bladed saber.

Are you saying if Lucas were to give Vader a double bladed lightsaber you would like him better? I say Vader would definitely kick Maul's ass.

Vader was stronger, no question. Maul had a speed to him that not many could match, but he didnt have much beyond that. And Vader wasnt too slow himself. Vader would kill him within 6 moves.

Maul.

Vader's Saber style, nearly mastered at the time (Djem So) is terribly strong on defense. Maul's Juyo (the 'Original' and totally twisted Vapaad) is incredibly aggressive...MORE so than Djem So. Djem So relies heavily on defense, Maul would have to a.) outmaneuver Vader's defense and stick him fast, or b.) get worn out through the long fight and die.

That's just the style stuff. After observing the portrayals (Ray Park as Maul and Hayden as Vader), It's painfully obvious who was faster and stronger.

Now, as far as fictitiously, Vader's strength grows throughout, so whether or not Maul would win depends a lot on when he had to face him. Pre-suit, odds would go to Maul, IMO. Post-Suit, Maul would have trouble during the purge, but far less as Vader got tired and more reliant on Palpy drugs.

As to the whole (maul got killed by an apprentice) crap...well, Maul would have had the easiest time ever fighting vader after his fateful duel with a Jedi Master...what with legs and arms missing and all that.

--muz

Well seeing as how Vader kills Maul after a bunch of dark side adepts resurrect him the stories speak for themself... heh.

omg Muz do I have to repeat myself. Maul killed ONE Jedi Master and had enough energy taken out of him to lose to an apprentice. Okay now look at this, ANAKIN killed HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of Jedi Apprentice to Master, in one day then within a time span of lets say 24 hours ended up fighting Kenobi. VADER WOULD HAVE CRUSHED MAUL. Within the first moments of the battle Maul would have switched forms if anything. I'd say Vader was twice as fast as Kenobi as an apprentice, and kenobi managed to destroy the double blade and match skills. if it wasn't for that damn pit who knows where the battle would have went. my guess is Kenobi would have worn Maul out and killed him in the heat of anger.

Uh, no, Anakin killed YOUNGLINGS, not Apprentice's. And Obi wasnt a Padawan, he couldnt have taken Anakin as a student if he were a paddy! Doh! I would call it fighting a Master and a Knight.

hmm... from what I remember of the movies anakin doesn't kill a single jedi master, I'm not sure he even kills any jedi, only Tyrannus so Maul has the best kill record.
And if you look at other things both of them equally sucked since Obi Wan managed to cut half of the body off of both of them

And just a side note, why start a poll like this if you have to respond to opposite views with what I'd call a hissy fit?

IF (big If) Vader killed thousands of masters in a 24 hour period, as you claim, Jaymez...he'd have had to use a bomb. Force or no force, no one can kill that many in so short a time, even by ambush, in direct battle. further, there weren't 5000 jedi at the temple...far more were in the field for the War, and most of the ones at the temple were in various stages of training.

As Malness pointed out, the only things you see anakin killing in the flick is Dooku, younglings, a sketchy video of a few padawans getting slain, and some seperatist generals.

Maul took down a Knight who was highly regarded enough to almost be considered a master. As for Obi taking him out, it certainly looked to me as though Obi was about beat before he pulled the force jump and lucky slash. Yeah, if maul was less cocksure, well, then it'd be a different story altogether.

Obi wan was not matched evenly with maul by a long shot. Obi got a lucky shot in. period. Lucky shots can be had by anyone, and if it's good enough, the best swordsman in the world can get knocked cold by a stick.

Now if you want to argue about Master Kenobi (circa ROTS) vs. Maul, i think there'd be some interesting discussion.

haven't seen/heard of the maul resurrection stuff though, goat. sounds like some bull invented lately to make more people nutride on vader though. What book/comic/etc?

Yeah, where did you guys find out about Vader v.s. Maul, 'cause I wanna see that one!! Which comic?

One thing people need to stop assuming being a Jedi Master means they are a better warrior than a Jedi Knight. The Jedi Order didn't promote you for being able to fight. It promoted you for being a good Jedi. Obi-Wan was known as "the negotiator" for a reason. Obi-Wan was an example of a good swordsman though Qui-Gon Jinn was not. He was a ok, sure, but he wasn't anything special.

In Revenge of the Sith Vader kills Cin Drallig, Jedi Master, chief weaponmaster and lightsaber instructor of the Jedi Temple, effectively second only to Windu and Yoda with a lightsaber, he also kills Shaak Ti, a Jedi Master again. Then we have all the unnamed Jedi Knights and Padawans however those two Masters he killed solo without the aid of any stormtroopers.

Then throughout the next twenty five years until he dies he kills an unknown number of Jedi, Masters, Knights and Padawans alike as he hunts down any last traces of the Jedi Order for the Emperor. The fact Maul lost to a single Padawan rather speaks for itself. Anakin Skywalker was a brash, arrogant, over confident twit that could have killed Obi-Wan but let his arrogance get the better of him and cost him his arms and lengths. Darth Vader however never loses a fight. Ever. Not until Luke bests in aboard the second Death Star.

Theres a big difference between Darth Vader after he finds out Padme is dead and Darth Vader when he's still trying to use the dark side "for good intentions". Up until he finds out she's dead he's still only reluctantly destroying the Jedi in order to save her. He's a whole different story after the suit. He may not be able to use Force Lightning anymore, but he doesn't have to. Theres no direct evidence Maul had ever bothered to train to use the Force except to aid him with a lightsaber anyway, so he might have sucked with Force powers too.

Darth Vader (suited) would have slaughtered Maul without question. Nobody ever got the better of Darth Vader.
Darth Vader (before suit) is a different question. He was more powerful but he was still an over-confident youth.

He's more a Jedi Knight still before the suit, its not until after that he really becomes the equivalent of a Jedi Master.
Maul was a tool. Nothing more. He could spin around brandishing a lightsabere. He wasn't a Master. Vader was.

The fight between Maul and Vader isn't canon per se because its an Infinities tale however its one of the serious tales that keeps the characterisations accurate rather than being a parody. Its arguable that its meant to be part of the canon, I'm unsure, as its actually got enough story to it to justify how it could have happened. Since most of the stories from Star Wars: Tales are parodies and cartoons though they label the books as Infinites (not canon) to avoid complication.

Its called "Resurrection". Its the first story in Star Wars: Tales Volume 3.

In essence it does convey what I've said above. Even if Maul was a better swordsman he still would have lost against Vader in a fight. Maul wasn't a Master, he was the equivalent more of a Knight, he also didn't have the right state of mind to win against Vader. Pre-Padme's death Maul might have stood a chance, but after Vader lost all hope and surrendered himself forever to the dark side Maul would have been just another wimpish bug for Vader to crush.

Xanos your my hero : P

I am not throwing a fit, I am working out the diffrences and trying to make you see my point of view.

well putting half your words in caps doesn't help people make others see your view any better than words that are not in caps.

Indeed, Jaymz. If you need to emphasize something, please use italics.

I'm going to take the road of Maul here. Lets look at the major arguments.

1. Anakin killed hundreds of Jedi, Maul was sliced by a padawan: I agree wholeheartedly that being a Jedi Master does not mean they are necessarily stronger with the Force and with their lightsabers. All it means is that they followed the Jedi's petty code of peace and tranquility. I am certain there were many field Knights, and possibly some advanced padawans, who could have struck down Masters if they were so inclined. Besides, we're talking about a dark side user going up against a bunch of Lighties. If you all are true followers of the dark path, then tell me, who's gonna win every time?

Speaking of which, Maul was thinking along these very same lines when he took on Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan. In fact, he defeated Qui-Gon for that very reason. But, didn't we all see the anger in Obi-Wan's face, the hatred in his eyes as his master was turned into a saber-ka-bob? Where do we all know those feelings take us? You guessed it: Dark side! I believe Obi-Wan used the dark side that day to take on and ultimately defeat Maul. Sidious's apprentice was completely unprepared for this. When he fought with Qui-Gon, he could read the Light-user's moves easily, but it wasn't so easy when a dark shroud clouded his anticipation.

Now, in a fight against Vader, Maul would obviously know he was up against a user of the dark arts, and would be able to properly approach his foe.

2. Maul did not use the Force, therefore Vader would've choked him to death: Uh-uh. Maul most definitely used the Force. He used it once to throw an object at a panel to open a door, and to push Obi-Wan off the bridge in the big light room. Also, remember that the Force is not always used overtly. Maul most definitely had the ability to use and channel Force energy, but found it the most productive to channel it into his fighting abilities. If approached by someone who used the Force to harm others (i.e. a dark sider), Maul would've been able to fend off the attacks.

3. Vader wins every time: No. Take a look at their saber styles. Vader is primarily defensive, while Maul is outrageously offensive. It is well known that a permenantly defensive strategy is ultimately self-defeating unless you have mastered the art (which Vader had not), especially when faced with a superior offence such as the one afforded to Maul.

Indeed, Jaymz. If you need to emphasize something, please use italics. 

I'm going to take the road of Maul here. Lets look at the major arguments.

1. Anakin killed hundreds of Jedi, Maul was sliced by a padawan: I agree wholeheartedly that being a Jedi Master does not mean they are necessarily stronger with the Force and with their lightsabers. All it means is that they followed the Jedi's petty code of peace and tranquility. I am certain there were many field Knights, and possibly some advanced padawans, who could have struck down Masters if they were so inclined. Besides, we're talking about a dark side user going up against a bunch of Lighties. If you all are true followers of the dark path, then tell me, who's gonna win every time?

Speaking of which, Maul was thinking along these very same lines when he took on Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan. In fact, he defeated Qui-Gon for that very reason. But, didn't we all see the anger in Obi-Wan's face, the hatred in his eyes as his master was turned into a saber-ka-bob? Where do we all know those feelings take us? You guessed it: Dark side! I believe Obi-Wan used the dark side that day to take on and ultimately defeat Maul. Sidious's apprentice was completely unprepared for this. When he fought with Qui-Gon, he could read the Light-user's moves easily, but it wasn't so easy when a dark shroud clouded his anticipation.

Now, in a fight against Vader, Maul would obviously know he was up against a user of the dark arts, and would be able to properly approach his foe.

2. Maul did not use the Force, therefore Vader would've choked him to death: Uh-uh. Maul most definitely used the Force. He used it once to throw an object at a panel to open a door, and to push Obi-Wan off the bridge in the big light room. Also, remember that the Force is not always used overtly. Maul most definitely had the ability to use and channel Force energy, but found it the most productive to channel it into his fighting abilities. If approached by someone who used the Force to harm others (i.e. a dark sider), Maul would've been able to fend off the attacks.

3. Vader wins every time: No. Take a look at their saber styles. Vader is primarily defensive, while Maul is outrageously offensive. It is well known that a permenantly defensive strategy is ultimately self-defeating unless you have mastered the art (which Vader had not), especially when faced with a superior offence such as the one afforded to Maul.


maul did use the force to open the door on naboo by picking up an object and hurling it with the force and when he pushed obi off the ledge think about it maul didnt need to use the force he had a double sabre and we all saw how good he was with only 1 blade
if it was suited vader maul wins if human vader i have to go with.............................................Vader >:) but i guess it doesnt matter they both choked when it came to fighting obi, its all his fault we never got to see this fight

WHOOO HOOO MAUL PICKED UP SOMETHING AND THREW IT AT A DOOR >.< Thats about as usefull as countering Yoda by saying Anakin picked up a fruit with the force.

WHOOO HOOO  MAUL PICKED UP SOMETHING AND THREW IT AT A DOOR >.< Thats about as usefull as countering Yoda by saying Anakin picked up a fruit with the force.


maul is a sith none the less he force pushed obi off the edge you underestimate the power of the sith he just let his blades do the talking

And Anakin uses a combination.

IF (big If) Vader killed thousands of masters in a 24 hour period, as you claim, Jaymez...he'd have had to use a bomb.  Force or no force, no one can kill that many in so short a time, even by ambush, in direct battle.  further, there weren't 5000 jedi at the temple...far more were in the field for the War, and most of the ones at the temple were in various stages of training.

As Malness pointed out, the only things you see anakin killing in the flick is Dooku, younglings, a sketchy video of a few padawans getting slain, and some seperatist generals.

Maul took down a Knight who was highly regarded enough to almost be considered a master.  As for Obi taking him out, it certainly looked to me as though Obi was about beat before he pulled the force jump and lucky slash.  Yeah, if maul was less cocksure, well, then it'd be a different story altogether.

Obi wan was not matched evenly with maul by a long shot.  Obi got a lucky shot in.  period.  Lucky shots can be had by anyone, and if it's good enough, the best swordsman in the world can get knocked cold by a stick.

Now if you want to argue about Master Kenobi (circa ROTS) vs. Maul, i think there'd be some interesting discussion. 

haven't seen/heard of the maul resurrection stuff though, goat.  sounds like some bull invented lately to make more people nutride on vader though.  What book/comic/etc?


he had to have killed at least one jedi master who else would supervise the younglings? lucas should have showed it to end this debate besides im sure there would have been some kind of temple security like the sabre staff guards in the game

Yes exactly Lucian. If Maul was sooo good and DBS's are sooo awesome how come Anakin like wipes out a [Expletive Deleted]load in the game? I know that I killed AT LEAST a thousand Jedi in that game. not to mention the Jedi that returned fromt he Clone Wars and were killed. They pretty much wiped out the ENTIRE ORDER, Vader killed at LEAST a thousand Jedi, how many did maul kill.....1.

Okay there were at least 5 thousand Jedi in the temple, lets say the clones killed 3 thousand of them, that leaves at least 2000 left for Anakin. yes they had an entire army,  but it takes over 5 clones to take down one jedi and there were lots of jedi there, Ani is better.



at the start of the Clone wars the jedi could only get 200 jedi to go to geonosis. and during the war they would have 5000 jedi in the temple? not even the entire council was there! there would have been 50 trained Knights, a few masters(Shaak ti,...) and the younglings. i don't see how that could have been 5000 jedi

by the way, most of the powerfull jedi like mace, Kit, ... where taken out by sidious. Ki adi Mundi was destroyed by clones. Anakin killed the youngest and weakest jedi(with a few exceptions)! he murdered those who weren't ready for battle and those that were supposed to protect the first group!


Also, Obi-Wan had only one form! in RotS the council sends him after Grievous because he's the only one that didn't pick a form to cover a weakness (Yoda: Ataru because he is a bit small). but Obi-Wan picked that form because it was in unison with his beliefs about pacifism!

yes i agree i read this in the book

i hate it when people post things as facts without consulting all the sources

i tend to do that sometimes but not alot, not anymore

anakin would win......

Anakin vs. Maul... Anakin would win easy!

Vader vs Mual... Vader would win, but it would be alot closer battle!

yeah, i think that is correct.

i agree with mortis

if your referring to mechanical vader he would be slaughtered

with vade we mean mechanical

and anakin is the other

The IV,V,VI Darth Vader would be literally annihalated by Darth Maul - judging by his skills in the older episodes.
Aniken in the first three episodes was way more force adept than Maul and thus I think he'd have the edge in battle.

The historical Darth Vader (ie, the stories and not the movies) would annihalate Darth Maul. So, by me, its Vader over Maul.

totally agree with you

me agrees with this statement

I would also have to agree.

so we all agree that Vader is the better. but that maul would have defeaten the 'original trilogy'-vader

I think that as Anakin with flesh Maul would have gotten his arse beaten, but as the Original Trilogy Vader with all the armor Maul would have won in a second.

In the original, Vader was very slow moving, and a terrible fighter, Maul was much faster. I know Vader was slow because of the time period when they filmed it, but Maul still would've won.

yeah, that's our conclusion also

Of course

anyone not agree???

no, everyone agrees unanimously i supose

until some1 says something stupid i think this thread will be inactive

yeah, i believe we are without something to talk about

what about palps vs. anakin

That depends. i believe that Anakin, if he wanted, could have destroyed Palpatine in ep3. but he didn't and chose to become the Apprentice rather then the master

i agree

it's logical if you look at the sith ways: learn everythng from master that he knows, destroy master.

anakin still wanted Palpatine's knowledge

Vader thinks he could have killed Palp, when he couldn't even kill Obi. Even Yoda could not defeat palps. Do you think Vader could dodge flying senate cars like Yoda, doubtful. Even if they weren't in the senate chamber, I don't think Vader would be able to beat Palps. Not in the current situation anyway. If anakin would have learned more, maybe.....

You are currently discussing the topics with the limits of the movie. I don't think Lukas thought that Vader would be much weaker then Anakin. The special effects just weren't that far. I guess a computer animated Vader would have moved much faster. Like a computer animated Yoda moved much faster then the muppet.

It's like if you say that Piett got demoted from part V to VI just cause he had a smaller ranking emblem.

I don't know about that. Yoda had been alive for several hundred years, having time to strengthen his muscles and use to the force to jump. Anakin was more Lightsaber oriented, and though he could use the force decently. To what extent would be the question. Palps would win.

Hm....how much was Palpatine skilled in the use of the Dark Side?

anakin could have killed palps anytime he wanted

and, palpatine is sure of anakins support. anakin could have killed him when his guard was down

exactly

palpatine was overconfident at that time

all of the jedi and sith were except............obi-wan

yeah, he kept humble 'til the end

yes he did

Palpatine knew he was at death's door. That's the point that Palpatine had to really push Anakin towards the darkness or he would die.

He was VERY confident that Anakin would save him, but remember those comics where they took the trilogy movies and played them like something else had happened? I see another one coming for RotS.

frickin sweeeet

Palpatine knew he was at death's door. That's the point that Palpatine had to really push Anakin towards the darkness or he would die.

He was VERY confident that Anakin would save him, but remember those comics where they took the trilogy movies and played them like something else had happened? I see another one coming for RotS.



First of all, Sidious has alwasy been more powerful then Vader. He was smarter, better trained and surely more devoted to the dark side then Vader could ever be (as we have seen at the end of Ep VI). Sidious never let his guard down, not for a moment and all he had done, even losing the high ground to Windu, was well planned to turn Anakin into Vader. For Sidious ever action, every tough, ever word was a well planned MEAN to and END. That is were Vader failed as a Sith, he has never been able to see the bigger picture, and even 20 years later Sidious have yet to teach him what's behind each event. Yes, at one point Sidious indeed lose his guard, like most Sith does at one point, and the one time he did it, it the same day he died.

Exactly, Anakin/Vader would have to catch Palps OFF GUARD. In a direct, real, battle, Vader would lose.

yeah right

i agree

palps would have gotten his ass handed to him

Palps was a very skilled swordsman, but you try going fifty or more years without even touching your saber or the force and still be powerful.

that isn't exactly correct. according to the expanded universe he used the force to crush a group of rebelious moffs just before or after Yavin i think

Yavin was during the original trilogy though. I'm talking about Episodes I-III where he had to go from the time he became senator to Order 66 without using the force. He could have tried to pratrice his saber form secretly, but a man with such strong force connection couldn't use the force without all of Corusant's jedi feeling the surge.

ah ok, but according to the novels around ep. III, he knew a way to hide himself in the force, and Yoda sensed him during the battle of coruscant

He sensed a dark force, but was too clouded and "stupid" to pin point exactly where it was coming from. He sensed Sidious when he was in his cloak and such, but the Palpatine form had to hide his force presence for days at a time.

Lets take a vote on it.