The Greatest Jedi of all time.


14-06-2005 16:03:32

Name ONE Jedi that has ever won a lightsaber duel without giving into hatred and anger. The only one who hasn't, is in fact, Obi Wan Kenobi. >.> I find this odd.

Mike Halcyon

14-06-2005 17:48:57

That's because he's the best. :)


14-06-2005 19:15:59 his fight with Maul, he seemed to allow some of his anger at the death over Qui-Gon fuel him, if just briefly

Macron Sadow

14-06-2005 20:39:27

Or perhaps it was fear as well...

Muz Ashen

14-06-2005 20:49:16

Anger, fear, all tools of the dark side.

Obi-Wan Kenobi, probably the most worthy Jedi of the title.

Yoda was also good, but in his inaction, in his exile, he grew to fear...fear change...fear death.

Mace Windu feared the dark side, which paradoxically led him closer to it.

Both would have been great Dark Side Adherents.


14-06-2005 23:26:16

Mace Windue would be one bad mother if he would have gone to the darkside, his uncaring nature and his skill in vapaad would have kicked arse.

Mike Halcyon

15-06-2005 04:27:51

Vaapad sucks. Did you ever play the ROTS xbox game? You have to be like Greivous to rule. :P


15-06-2005 07:37:35

Of all people, why would Yoda fear death? He has like a get out of jail free card.

Muz Ashen

15-06-2005 09:07:07

Yoda ran like a scared punk from Palps.
And the 'get out of jail' card, he did not develop until far later... circa RotJ... which is even later than Kenobi figured it out.


15-06-2005 19:35:06

Ah, yes. But still, he'd had a pretty long life. I didn't think Yoda would fear death.


17-06-2005 14:22:12

Council of Jedi? Eh?


17-06-2005 14:29:24

It is probably best not to ask. :huh:

Mike Halcyon

17-06-2005 16:48:32

No relation.


20-06-2005 07:58:30

It's ok, Halc. There's only a few individuals posting in this topic. We won't repeat the family secret :P

Best Jedi of all time: Aayla - cause she's a chick :P. We also never got a glimpse of her being angry within the films or scared.

Something tells me I may be wrong when it comes to the Dark Horse Comics and the like, but I stand by my judgement until corrected with evidence.

And Yoda's fairly controlled. True, he did fear Palpatine, but he's like the lightest Jedi in history. He knows how to control it. It in untamed and unlearned fear that can lead to anger and therefore the darkside.


20-06-2005 19:46:02

Council of the Jedi? What?


Shinichi Endymiron K

22-06-2005 00:03:03

Mara Jade. Her redemption unlike others was complete. She was taught nothing of the light side save that she should hate it, yet came full circle to become a leader of the new order, a wife and a mother. She abandoned darkness and fully embraced the light. It is easy to remain upon a path you have known all your life. It is much harder to defy everything you have ever known and become what you were taught to hate for the fragile promise of love.


22-06-2005 06:16:10

Council of the Jedi as in... what is it?

I wouldn't necessarily say Yoda was scared of Palpatine just that he had a brain. It can be argued that in battle it takes a braver man to admit his own defeat in order to live and fight another day than to be the fool and lose forever.

Had Yoda died then the dark side would have won. Obi-Wan would never have learned how to communicate with Qui-Gon. He would never have learned how to become one with the Force. That means he could never have spoke to Luke after he died. That means Luke would never have destroyed the first Death Star. That means the Rebellion would have been destroyed. It also means Luke would never have found his way to Dagobah. It also means even if he had made his way to Dagobah he would never have trained with Yoda and would neverh have become a Jedi Knight and never have defeated Darth Vader and the Emperor. Thats assuming he survived past the Battle of Yavin. Its also assuming he even managed to escape the Death Star. Had Obi-Wan not known how to become one with the Force he wouldn't have let himself die so the fight with Darth Vader in the hanger could have gone on longer and caused Luke to get himself killed trying to intervene.

Basically... without Yoda it would all have been screwed.

Presuming Yoda realised that I don't think he was necessarily a coward for putting self preservation above suicide. He knew he wasn't strong enough to defeat the Emperor. For someone so powerful that took balls to admit as he could just have kept on fighting like the fool. Mace Windu, for example, was the idiot for having been overconfident. He went to face Palpatine with just three other Jedi Masters. He shunned the prophecy and refused to bring Anakin with him, he went without Obi-Wan, the only person alive to have faced and defeated a Sith Lord, he didn't go with Yoda who was the only person alive with anywhere near the power to stand a real chance against Palpatine. Mace assumed he was stronger than a Sith Lord... when he was really just an equal match. Had he actually taken another Jedi of similar power with him- Anakin, Obi-Wan or Yoda- then Palpatine probably wouldn't have won.

In my eyes having waited wouldn't have been cowardly, it would have been intelligent. Likewise retreat isn't inherently the act of a coward. If anything Yoda had balls to go and face Palpatine after he had single handedly slaughtered four Jedi Masters including Mace Windu and overcome the prophecy by turning the Chosen One to the dark side. Yoda pretty much knew he was walking to what could be his death.

I can't actually think of any Jedi who have defeated a powerful Sith Lord without using the dark side though. Its why the line is so blurred about whether or not the dark side is stronger. In the long run it may not be but at the moment, in the heat of battle, its unmatched. A Jedi might be able to keep a fight going forever by being a master of defence but defence doesn't win a battle. If you want to beat somebody like Darth Maul in a fight you've got to turn up the power and go on the attack- which isn't the Jedi way. Yes, Obi-Wan defeated Darth Maul, but he hardly beat him fighting. Obi-Wan lost to Darth Maul in a fight. He only beat him after the fight was over because Maul was another idiot with too much confidence for his own good. In an outright lightsaber duel though Maul was better.

The only person I can really name who defeated a Sith Lord without calling on the dark side was Anakin when he killed Palpatine. It wasn't exactly a fight though. Luke showed that you couldn't beat the Emperor, not in a fight, though he was prepared to die like a Jedi without turning to the dark side. In an all out fight though I really can't name a single person... and I don't think its possible. To take a quote "the Jedi don't believe in killing their prisoners". Where possible Jedi would rather defend, defend, and defend, they would never die, but would try forever to redeem and turn their opponent back to the light. They only kill if it is an absolute necessity and done as an act of defence to save their own life. Even then they would rather die than attack- again, look at Luke, he chose death rather than to fight. If a Jedi sticks entirely to the Code then they can't beat an opponent in a fight. They use the Force only for defence, never for attack. A true Jedi wouldn't defeat an opponent, they'd convince an opponent to surrender or abandon their evil ways. If they have to kill them they'd consider it a failure and not a real victory.


22-06-2005 07:15:12

Council of the Jedi as in... what is it?

A Jedi role playing faction.

*Reads the rest of Xano's post*


22-06-2005 13:15:08

The greatest Jedi of all time, I think, Is Obi-Wan Kenobi. Not only was he able to defeat a foe that his master could not, but he was the only one the Jedi Council saw fit to defeat Grievous. Not only that but he taught Luke, who was "Supposed" to be the best Jedi, so come on Obi is, if not #1, up in the top 3


23-06-2005 07:33:10

I agree, however, the victory against Maul was not the best of Jedi examples. He gave into anger mid way through the battle, and towards the end.


23-06-2005 12:10:38

No Jedi is perfect, they cannot block out emotions essential to a beings life, that being Hatred and anger. If someone killed someone who was like a father to you, know matter how many training excersises you went through i am sure you would be more than a little upset. And without anger Obi would have lost so he is better for it.


23-06-2005 17:14:36

all jedi use the power of the dark side sometimes.(mace windus vapaad style is bascily a dark side lightsaber form) if they dont then they wouldnt be here. another thing, dont you think that the force is in balance if there is light and dark, wouldnt that make more sence? if it was only light then its not balanced is it?


24-06-2005 06:34:20

Well in George Lucas Land the dark side is an unnatural abhorence that needs to be destroyed. Further evidence really that the Jedi Knights are not "Light Jedi" but are actually more neutral and balanced than anything.

Jedi accept death is a necessary part of life. They accept killing people who can't be reasoned with is necessary. They accept killing evil people is necessary. They accept leaving people to die who would only bring more death if saved is necessary.

They were never "Light Jedi" really. The Jedi were always neutral. If a Jedi followed the 'light side' as strongly as a Dark Jedi follows the dark side then they would save everyone and everything they could possibly save. They don't do that though. Mace Windu wasn't really turning to the dark side when he was about to kill Darth Sidious- he wasa just following the Jedi Code that taught the dark side must be destroyed to restore balance.

The Jedi Knights are that balance essentially. Dark Jedi might be one extreme but Jedi aren't the opposite extreme, they're in harmony with the Force itself, and the Force itself is neutral.


24-06-2005 07:20:32

Very interesting.


24-06-2005 13:10:08

No Jedi is perfect, they cannot block out emotions essential to a beings life, that being Hatred and anger. If someone killed someone who was like a father to you, know matter how many training excersises you went through i am sure you would be more than a little upset. And without anger Obi would have lost so he is better for it.

That is true. I once was sparring with martial arts wooden swords, and I gave into anger and hatred to the max that I went into a frenzy of extremely fast attacks, therefore winning the battle.


24-06-2005 13:44:07

the force needs no balancing, we will destroy the jedi and all who follow them. we will call it the dark jedi brotherhood. (oh wait a second) :P


24-06-2005 16:36:57

Another example of why the name is Dark Brotherhood and why we need to stop calling ourselves this modernised term Dark Jedi Brotherhood that causes all kinds of inconsistencies and errors :P

Muz Ashen

24-06-2005 19:23:53

That is true. I once was sparring with martial arts wooden swords, and I gave into anger and hatred to the max that I went into a frenzy of extremely fast attacks, therefore winning the battle.

do that against a more skilled opponent. We'll send flowers to your hospital room.

Harnessing that anger and using it as fuel is what needs to be done, not letting it take you over. Pushing that hard in combat is wild, uncontrolled, and vulnerable.

For the record, i use the term lightsider as a pejoritive, a sneering condescension for the neutral jedi because i find their rules distasteful, not because i believe they are truly light.


24-06-2005 19:49:09

i still think as db members we should not talk about jedi as if they are "good"


01-07-2005 20:53:22

I don't like swords....too big. knives and staffs (I know staff bigger than swords) do it for me. I have faught expericened and well trained martial artists with a staff and won, but there was no time to put emotion into it, each second I was planning the next attack or counter attack. : P

Macron Sadow

02-07-2005 11:26:50

i still think as db members we should not talk about jedi as if they are "good"

"Know your enemy, know yourself" Tyrus.

And Muz is right. I have fought full contact several times, and been a martial artist for 20 years. Lose your control, and you get whacked. I have had it happen to me many times.
Now, I play it cool and save the emotion for that moment when my opponent screws up.