GJW X Debate: Light Jedi; Yay or Nay?


18-09-2011 18:22:02

The Dark Council has come to each individual Clan and House system to discuss the issue with the light jedi currently a part of the Brotherhood. Opinions on both sides of the issue have formed, with both sides putting forth their arguments to the Dark Council on whether or not to keep these light jedi around.

In Odan-Urr a similar conversation takes place between themselves and whether to continue to stay a part of the Brotherhood or find their own path away from the darkness

Light Jedi; Yay or Nay? Debate Event
-The debate will be conducted in specially designated forums, already set up for each House/Clan. Passwords may be obtained from Consuls and Quaestors
-Each Clan/House will decide who will form the two teams that will debate one another
-Clan/House members will debate one another on whether or not it is a good idea to have the light jedi as part of the DJB
-Members of Odan-Urr will debate on whether it is a good idea for them to stay with the DJB
-There must be a minimum of 3 members per team and each member must post to count for participation
-Same person may not post back-to-back for their team
-Same team cannot post back-to-back
-Cannot edit your post once another post is up
-To “count” for participation a post must be at least 250 words in length
-Debate is to be “In Character”

-Entries will be graded on Grammar, Readability, Continuity and Persuasiveness of argument
-If a Clan or House is not able to get the requisite minimum number of participants, or have a completed debate, they will earn no points

Either side may begin with their opening statement


20-09-2011 23:55:39

With all due respect to Lord Ashen, I still cannot believe we've allowed these emotionless fools to live and grow within the fold of our once great Brotherhood. Mark my words brethren, there can be no benefit to this enterprise and anyone who thinks otherwise is too short sighted to see the inevitable cost we will all pay for it if it continues.

A large part of what concerns me here is where the gain is – for either side. How much of the Brotherhood's resources are wasted on this group of rejects, and can we even come close to matching that cost in... whatever it is exactly we're getting from this arrangement? Jedi Peace Beads? Warm fuzzy feelings of happiness and joy? For a moment though, let's look at things from their side. What exactly is it that they gain from us such that they'd want to continue this relationship? After all, we use emotion to fuel our power, and from what I've come to understand of the Jedi teachings that's pretty much a capital offense in their book. Whatever small disagreement they have with the rest of the Jedi in the Core Worlds, I strongly doubt we could still be the "lesser evil" in their minds. Without a clear benefit to both parties, this truce can only be temporary.

Time and time again I've heard some wannabe scholar quote to me the cliché "better to keep your friends close and your enemies closer". I can say from experience that, quite frankly, the last thing we want in battle is an enemy with a blade standing next to us. Some of you may relish getting up close and personal with your opponent, and I know some of you have the scars that should tell you what a stupid idea that is. The longer that we allow these Jedi a place in the Brotherhood, the more intel they have when it comes time to strike at us.

What I'm getting at here is that eventually this will come down to a fight, and we as a Brotherhood do not want to be the ones caught off guard. That is why we must strongly advocate for the elimination this threat to The Final Way as soon as possible.

Ashia Kagan

21-09-2011 06:39:23

I am not one to waste time discussing everything in a committee, but as it appears this topic is fraught with controversy, we seem to have little choice. Allowing the Jedi's existence within the Brotherhood has its benefits.

"Keep your enemies closer" may be a cliché as my colleague here has mentioned, but there is some grain of truth to that. If we destroy them instead of allowing them to exist we cannot keep a close eye on them and run the risk of there being rogue Jedi factions developing throughout the galaxy and causing all sorts of problems for the Brotherhood. Now one might argue, "What can a small band of Jedi do against the Brotherhood?" Well, no one expected a small band of rebel rejects to destroy the Deathstar either...but they did.

Lord Ashen's decision to allow for their existence was not made lightly. He weighed the pros and cons carefully as he does with everything. By creating this Jedi House he has singlehandedly weeded out the weak from the strong and therefore has strengthened the Clans within the Brotherhood by creating a place for the lightsiders to go and also making them known to us. All of us have watched one person after another ‘defect’ to the way of Light, have we not? How many of you were shocked by some of those that left for Odan-Urr? The Brotherhood can only prosper from this as it continues to grow stronger instead of weaker by eliminating this weakness from within the Clans.

I therefore advocate allowing the Jedi a continued existence within the Brotherhood to allow for the Brotherhood’s continued growth and prosperity.


22-09-2011 00:50:37

In keeping with my brother’ Benevolent’s argument and in response to my Aediles rash and otherwise naive statements, I will weigh in my thoughts on this matter. First however, I cannot allow the ignorant comments that Ashia made to go un-answered for, especially when discussing a crucial topic such as this.

My dear Aedile stated that if we kill off these weak beings, we cannot keep a close eye on them. Let me speak on behalf of my fellow brothers who share my view; extermination is final, there are no survivors. It would be all too easy for the Grand Master’s Army of the Iron Throne to do his bidding and completely wipe these fools from existence. As you should know firsthand, Ashia, the Dark Lord does not take lightly to those who fail his orders. I say this with the notion that should the Lion of Tarthos give the order there would not be a single living soul left of these Jedi to bother keeping an “eye on”. The example we will be setting for any of these “factions” that my colleague has mentioned will be nothing short of a stupor.

We have seen how these traitorous Jedi act with the uprising of the Jedi Master Omancor Crask – they want nothing more than to suck our resources from the Brotherhood and its Clans and Houses, dominating over those foolish enough to believe their calls for “peace”. Any true follower of the Dark Side will agree that the Code of Sith is law. Let me remind you of the codes first stanza: “Peace is a lie; there is only passion”. Are we so quick for security in the Galaxy that we allow ourselves to be allied with liars?

I urge you who will listen to my words: Do not fall prey to the whiles of these Jedi sympathizers. We have smote a large uprising of these ‘followers of the light’ in our recent past. We have seen how they work and we have watched them grow, and we have also watched them fall. Have we not only seen disease, famine and war with their uprising? Have we also not seen how much we grow and prosper with them removed from our path to Darkness? I say this in respect to the Dark Council; I will not stand by and let the Final Way be disrupted by the ignorance of my superiors.

Apparently I am not alone in my train of thought, as there are plenty who would back up my theories and facts. I speak for those who do not have the voice to do so.

In continuing, I do not see where this Keibatsu has any place to speak on behalf of the Grand Master, nor do I think she can - or that she should - comprehend how he has weighed in on the decision to allow this great Brotherhood to be infiltrated by traitors and liars and to give them such a privilege as being granted a place within our ranks. If it were in the Grand Masters plan to separate the wheat from the chaff, than we have done so with great turn out. I can only urge Lord Ashen and his Shadow Hand to move upon these deserters of the Dark Side and end their sickening lives while they are under the Iron Thrones reign.

I know the pride that comes with being on the Dark Council. You who sit in power should no sooner kill yourself and the Brotherhood, for the followers of the Light will rise, whether now or in a century to come; but you will be known as the ones who initiated this hypocrisy. Any accomplishments and feats you have made will be lost and forgotten, if not destroyed at the very hands of those who you helped.

Make no debate about it. These Jedi are waiting for the Lion to falter, if not even for an instant, and they will not let up once they have made their strike. Again do I state that which has been proven time and again: Peace is a lie.


22-09-2011 03:52:05

For the purposes of this argument I will preface by rebutting the arguments put before us. The first argument is that it is much easier to wipe out the Light Side in completely. I believe if anything history has shown us that one side of the force cannot wipe the other side out. When one side tries to wipe the other side out, it just results in the counterpart coming back stronger.

Secondly is the point that the traitorous jedi acted in concert with Crask. You cannot be capable of treason if they act against a group you are not a part of. We are not looking for “peace” with these individuals either, we are looking to use them in their naivete for our own purposes.

Beyond that point, the issue of the creed is missed. The complete phrase is “peace is a lie, there is only passion”. This creed is a contract of the Jedi Creed that “There is no emotion, there is only peace”. The point that the jedi try to bring across is that emotions exist, but they need to be understood and set aside when it is needed. They believe that you have to be able to face your emotions in order to defeat them. The sith creed is saying that you do not need to defeat your emotions, emotions are what fuel you and if you do not use them to your advantage you are not doing yourself a favour.

Similarly to this creed, the jedi are another tool that we can use to further our own goals. Furthermore, I believe we are moving towards a re-visioning of how we look at the force. The force should be looked at like this symbol

You have to look at the force as a whole rather as separate parts. The two sides are opposite yet both sides have seeds of the other within them. Neither side represents something as simplistic as good or evil anymore than night and day represent good and evil. They represent two parts of a whole which need to be used together. Where the light side of the force is strong the dark side will compensate and vice versa. It is through this use of the force a whole that we will reach a better ability to dominate the galaxy as is our rightful place.

Thus, I urge Lord Ashen to continue on his wisely chosen course to victory.


24-09-2011 13:51:02

I recognize the positions held by my esteemed colleagues, Ashia and Alexander, that there might be some merit in using these Light Jedi as sources of military and/or cultural intelligence – but overall, the costs far outweigh the benefits. As sources of knowledge, the relatively small number of Light Jedi do not offer us any additional benefit over human intelligence sources placed within other Jedi and/or Galactic Alliance communities. The members of Odan-Urr, however, are enabled with the opposed numerical issue – the large number of Dark Jedi within our communities allows them to garner a great deal of military and cultural intelligence – all of which can be relayed back to their allies outside our territory.

These Light Jedi, as argued by my colleagues Benevolent and Shaz’air do not share our cultural values – and the very core of their belief structure is diametrically opposed to our own – and this can only lead to further struggles. Those that see these differences as advantageous and that argue for the continued inclusion of the Light Jedi in our ranks have no sense of history – and certainly have not learned from the Exodus that many in our ranks claim to celebrate. The Dark Jedi within our ranks were unable and unwilling to coexist with the Imperial Remnant – not because of some specific charge – but because Dark Jedi tend to be petty and petulant. The Imperial Remnant, for whatever faults they may have, share similar cultural and societal traits with Dark Jedi, which is why many of brethren wore a uniform for so many years. Yet, the Dark Jedi could not coexist.

I think it is laughable that coexistence is proposed with Light Jedi, whose cultural values and indeed their very existence is so diametrically opposed to our own. I therefore propose we eliminate the potential threats, for both cultural and purely cost-beneficial reasons.



24-09-2011 13:58:51

Friends, you all make interesting points, but we must not let this discussion tear our House asunder. Some of you view our bright companions as the bitterest of enemies. Others see them almost as the harmless folk they pretend to be. I have no personal feeling about them, one way or the other. So I put before you the fact that they are both, and neither.
Neither the strategic nor philosophical view will close this argument, so let me try a scientific one.
Fact; As long as there has been the Force, there has been light and dark to some degree.
Fact; These two, seemingly opposing, forces appear to exist because of each other. Although more often than not, they do not appear to be in balance.
Fact; We cannot hope to destroy all Jedi, not in our lifetime. Therefore we should count on running into them in the future.
Fact: This may be the biggest chance we have to study these vermin. They are dependent upon us, which gives us leverage. True, they in their turn can study us as well. But those how look to deep into the darkness, often are consumed by it.
And should they manage to get intelligence reports out to their brethren outside of our domain, than that would be a testament to their efficiency. All the more reason to learn from them.

Let us not hasten to send them away or destroy them. For they are fascinating subjects. As a matter of fact, I think all of our labs en petting zoos should have a pair!
Metaphorically; The closer we are to the source of light, the bigger the shadow will be that we cast out over the rest of the universe.

Where you see a waste of resources, I see an investment. Where you see danger, I see an opportunity. The riskier the road, the greater the profit. Send out a strong wolf amidst their weak flock. Let us know them, and know them well. Feed them, drink with them. We must wed them and bed them. We must make sure that they are so inextricably linked to us, that their pacifist nature will get accustomed to us. We must pour sweet honey into their ears until they wake up one morning, begging for more.
We must give them our breast and let them suckle until they are fat and happy and can suckle no more. And then, when we have learned all there is to know of them, we will turn the other cheek. And it will be a frightful one.

So my friends, let us honor the decision the Grand Master has made. Let them stay and be more than welcome. The harder the blow will be for them, once our path is clear. We will all benefit in the long run.