GJW X Debate: Light Jedi; Yay or Nay?

The Dark Council has come to each individual Clan and House system to discuss the issue with the light jedi currently a part of the Brotherhood. Opinions on both sides of the issue have formed, with both sides putting forth their arguments to the Dark Council on whether or not to keep these light jedi around.

In Odan-Urr a similar conversation takes place between themselves and whether to continue to stay a part of the Brotherhood or find their own path away from the darkness


Light Jedi; Yay or Nay? Debate Event
-The debate will be conducted in specially designated forums, already set up for each House/Clan. Passwords may be obtained from Consuls and Quaestors
-Each Clan/House will decide who will form the two teams that will debate one another
-Clan/House members will debate one another on whether or not it is a good idea to have the light jedi as part of the DJB
-Members of Odan-Urr will debate on whether it is a good idea for them to stay with the DJB
-There must be a minimum of 3 members per team and each member must post to count for participation
-Same person may not post back-to-back for their team
-Same team cannot post back-to-back
-Cannot edit your post once another post is up
-To “count” for participation a post must be at least 250 words in length
-Debate is to be “In Character”


Scoring
-Entries will be graded on Grammar, Readability, Continuity and Persuasiveness of argument
-If a Clan or House is not able to get the requisite minimum number of participants, or have a completed debate, they will earn no points


Either side may begin with their opening statement

Greetings assembled council,

We have gathered you all today to discuss the prominent issue of the Jedi order which has called the hallowed halls of the Brotherhood their home. The Dark Council has requested our own discussion, a debate of sorts, as to the fate of these followers of Odan-Urr. Today, my assembled colleagues will speak to you, not to convince you to cast out these Jedi from our realm, but to convince you of the merits of their presence within it.

I know; a bold statement. Yet, it is one of the truths that we so boldly ignore. For years, decades even, the Brotherhood has long stood vigilant in its attempts to defend its borders and keep our identities hidden from those who could harm us, but what about these Jedi? Those who wish to remain apart from Skywalker's order, those who wish to follow the teachings of another without fear of being indoctrinated by another? Do these people not share the same wishes as us; to stay out of the public eye, to remain hidden from Skywalker and his minions? Surely as Dark Jedi, we can understand the plight of others attempting to keep themselves hidden.

But what of the past? For many years, the Sith have long known that those whom have patience and can remain hidden are capable of great deeds. Amongst these stories is the legacy of Palpatine, a Sith Lord whom remained hidden while interacting with the Jedi Order, manipulating them and weakening their forces from within their area of influence. As long as House Odan-Urr exists, why fear the same thing happening to us?

With House Odan-Urr standing, defended by the Grand Master and his Council; anyone who feels the touch, the call of the light or even manages to redeem themselves...have a place in which they can call home. A place in which they cannot subvert our power, manipulate our Journeymen into following the path of the Light or seek a position of control in which they can destroy us from within. I know those of you amongst us will fear against such an issue with Odan-Urr standing, yet amongst ourselves we have seen former Sons of Sadow consider themselves amongst the number of these Jedi. Without this safe haven within our dominion, these prominent figures with knowledge of our Disciples and the Brotherhood, could very well have left to join Skywalker's order or even banded together to subvert our control and turn those loyal to us, against us.

While those are all good points you have made President L’eonheart may I remind you that for those decades that we defended our borders and kept our identities hidden these “Jedi” continued to join and stay within our brotherhood, long before these “Knights of Odan-Urr.” They willing submitted themselves to the teachings of the dark side and fought along side of us. I will agree that you can’t just have darkness and you can’t just have light, but light within darkness? It is impossible for them to co-exist together.

Allowing these “Knights of Odan-Urr” to form within our Brotherhood cause many great Dark Jedi, those faithful and loyal to the Iron Throne, even a few Disciples of our great Lord Naga Sadow to decided, “Hey lets see what its like to be a light jedi.” If they never came about they would all still be dark jedi. Cause if they didn’t run off to some other Jedi faction by now, then they would never betray the Brotherhood. As you mention President L’eonheart, Sith are patience we hid and find was to interact with the Jedi or those they protect while staying under their nose. You point being that the Jedi of Odan-Urr is the Brotherhoods way of staying under the Jedi Order’s nose? But there lies the problem, Odan-Urr has no intention on helping the Brotherhood. They just wanted a way to stay hidden form Skywalkers orders. They are just as much the enemy as skywalker and worst of all they everything about us.

Allowing them to stay will eventually be this brotherhood’s downfall. They were all students of the dark side once, its time to bring them back from the light or show them no mercy like a true Sith Lord would have done from the beginning. I’d like to see what Executive Director L’eonheart has to say on my comments. I must say I am surprise that two Pepoi’s are for having Jedi within our realm of darkness, the Grand Master’s Enforcer would be very disappointed. Just remember this, as their light grows our darkness slows disappears.

Raistlin sat back in his chair, listening to the arguments being made for and against corroborating with the Light Side Jedi. As he listened to each side, and Jeric finished up his speech, the Exarch knew he was next to speak. He had his own opinions of course, but he was representing the side he felt was the right decision for the Brotherhood to take on the decision. Whether or not his constituents agreed with him was the reason he was here, and compared to his last assignment, this would be a breeze. His last mission had almost cost him his life, and he was grateful to even be here to argue for the inclusion of the Light Side House. As he took a long drag off of his hand-rolled cigarra, Jeric finished, and Raistlin respectfully clapped to show he had not only paid attention, but had drawn the merits from his speech. When Jeric finished, Raistlin slowly stood and made his way to the podium. His cape swished along the floor as he took center stage, and he made contact with each of the members of the assembly, fellow clan-mates and assorted hangers-on. They were eager to hear his words, and he to deliver them. He cleared his throat and began to speak.

"Esteemed and respected Clanmates, I want to thank you first for allowing me this opportunity. While this is an important decision, and one that will surely impact our Brotherhood for some time, the merits of such an inclusion would be numerous and bountiful to us. If you will allow me to elaborate, I will go into intricate detail, and I hope that by the end of my speech that even the firmest of non-believers will have some inkling of hope that this could greatly benefit us as a whole.

I speak of course about the inclusion of the Light Side House of Jedi, known from this point as House Odan-Urr. While Both Jeric and Methyas made excellent points regarding the inclusion and exclusion of the House, I am here before you today to speak of one singular, all-encompassing benefit. I speak of course, about information.

Information colleagues, is they key to victory in all aspects of life. War, debate, sporting events all become a one-sided affair with information. Through information alone, you can divide, conquer, intimidate and win. By allowing the Knights of Odan-Urr to exist, it follows the age old theory 'Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer.' We let them co-exist close enough so that not only can we keep a close eye on our mortal enemies, but it will allow us a much better... and closer opportunity to best observe their strengths, as well as their weaknesses. It will hone us as a weapon, which at the appropriate time, can be used to crush these Light Jedi, and use their defeat as a warning to the rest of the Jedi Order, Skywalker's band included.

Make no mistake, I do not side with them, but instead am using logical reasoning to explain how their existence should be looked at as a benefit. If we exlclude them, they are free to grow stronger, without our cultivating influence, our worse yet, join with Skywalker and strengthen his numbers which would only be detrimental to us and our ultimate victory. By allowing them in our fold, we can cull the weak from their ranks and ours almost at will, which in turn would strengthen us immensely. Imagine if you will, being able to send almost any Jedi Hunter on their trials right in our backyard. The combat data alone would be invaluable!

I urge the members of this delegation, and the Brotherhood as a whole, to consider my stance, and while our esteemed Consul's stance augments my own, the main purpose of allowing their pitiful continued existence would be to ensure that we stand in a better position to ultimately defeat the Jedi once and for all, just as Palpatine almost did nearly a half century ago. Thank you my brothers and sisters, I appreciate your consideration." Raistlin finished with a short bow, to a raucous applause from the assemblage. He stepped down, and sat in his seat, quickly sparking another cigarra to control his anxiety. Clearly his speech had gone well, as there were numerous approving nods throughout the audience. For now however, he could only watch, wait and listen to the next orator scheduled to speak.

Ladies and Gentlemen, please I would like to put it to you that this club is named THE DARK JEDI BROTHERHOOD.

Not the Light side brotherhood, or the Jedi Brotherhood, we are all here because we prefer the Dark side, we use the Force so that we can explore, create, and destroy our enemies, we some of us prefer the Shadows were we can live our lives to the full, the Dark side gives us the power, the will and the fight for life, So why the light side of the Jedi way I ask.

Is it because the Light Jedi are weak, and are frighten of the Dark side and what it can do, or could be that the Light Jedi want us to convert to them and be goodie, goodies. Just image the thought of all of us joining the Light side, cause this could be the threat the Dark Jedi Brotherhood, yes this club and Naga Sadow as a Clan, and Marka Ragnos as my House, the place I call home!! Would this place be here still would it change to a different name?

The light side is a great threat to us on the right side of the Jedi culture, should we bow down and give up our very future, cause of a few Lighties.

I don’t think so I believe that the Dark Jedi Brotherhood, should remain The Dark side of the Force nothing more nothing less, this club and the members in it should be loyal and remember were they come from, and not have ideas, of grandeur thinking that they are better than us just because they are on the Light side, the side if the s called Good.

I am a Dark Jedi Knight, I have that position not because I was lazy and didn’t care and give a few Dark Councillor’s, a few bucks to be here, I worked hard and got my position that got me here today, why ? Because I am and I always will believe in the Dark Side, of the Force it is my passion so that’s not destroy and harm that passion, No to the Light side of the Force being Here.

My brothers and sisters, I believe that the solution to this debate is to continue to allow these Jedi to exist within the Brotherhood. They disgust me as much as they do any of us, but we must look at how this situation can be advantageous to not only ourselves, but the Brotherhood as a whole.


I see where Battlemaster Jeric is coming from, but I do not believe he is seeing the true picture: Whether we allow them a place to act openly or not, there are those who will turn their backs on the dark side. For some time now, we have had suspicions that many of our fellow Dark Jedi are not, in fact, what they seem. I do not mean that they are kind or merciful, but that they do not harness the full power of the dark side. Many wash out, many continue into the upper echelons of the Brotherhood. Then they gain influence and this leads to situations where they can influence others to their way of thinking or destabilize their part of the Brotherhood.


Thus, allowing a House of rogue Jedi to exist within our sphere of influence gives those that waver from the true path a place to congregate. This allows us to tell who is a problem much more easily.


As Exarch Raistlin stated, we should keep our friends close, but our enemies closer. I want to further this by saying that, rather than simply agree that it is tolerable for this House to exist, we should open trade with them and convince them that we mean them no ill will. This will allow us to be closer to them than the other Clans and Houses. Once they trust us, we have limitless possibilities, and they can be viewed as a disposable extension of our hand - one that no other Clan or House would predict.


My friends, unlike the Sith of old, our Brotherhood of Dark Jedi has always survived through innovation and adaptability. In times like the Exodus, we were able to undergo massive changes, survive, and indeed better ourselves. I know that we will also prevail in our current situation. This is a test of our wills, but we can benefit greatly from the existence of this House Odan-Urr. Do not allow your allegiance to the dark side and your hatred for the Jedi to cloud your judgement in this matter: These Jedi are a great potential asset as well as a fail-safe against internal strife.

All of you within the Dark Jedi Brotherhood, my brothers and sisters, I come before you on this day to propose the extermination of the Light Side. They do not belong with us and, though they may have been at one time disciples of the Dark Side, they are not nor should they be truly welcome within our ranks. I do not wish to be mixed with their ilk and have their erroneous ways manipulating our members against us, for already many of us have begun to turn our backs on the Dark Side. In what way is this acceptable? In what way is this any sort of situation where we wish for those among us to end up? I ask you, do you wish to become tainted by the House of Odan-Urr, the messengers of the Light? Are you that accepting of them that you would allow them to infiltrate our inner circles and infect your children, lovers, House and Clan? The followers of Light would have your families separated, your young ones taken and brainwashed into believing in the invalid lies of the Light Jedi, you all know this to be true!

For those of you that argue for keeping them assimilated into the Brotherhood, I beseech you to contemplate an alternate method of gathering data. Is not stealth what some of those within the Dark Jedi Brotherhood specialize in? Do we not have among us members of the Krath who would jump at the chance to harvest brand-new material for study? I, for one, would do anything within my power to better the knowledge of this Brotherhood, and many would put their lives on the line for such an achievement.
Consider this, members of this esteemed Brotherhood. By driving them out, we shall, by way of our superior swordsmanship and Force capabilities, lower their numbers dramatically. How many of you are willing to turn away from a fight, from the chance to prove yourselves the better of your Clan and House? Not many of you, I’m sure. So should we keep our enemies closer, or kick their worthless behinds so far beyond our borders that the very mention of our names will send them scurrying?!

I concur with something Comrade Tiberius has already brought to our attention: the fact that our organization is called The Dark Jedi Brotherhood. Why condone the merging of the Dark with the Light? As a rule they do not mix. Are we not, as Comrade Hunter Cyrin pointed out, known for secrecy? By keeping those Light users in our midst’s the undertaking of lingering out of sight will double, no, triple in difficulty and many complications will arise--sooner rather than later. I do not know about you, my friends, but I prefer that Skywalker not be attracted to our location by the homing beacon that is The House of Odan-Urr.
Gentlemen, ladies, brothers and sisters, my comrades in arms, I ask you…will you tolerate standing side-by-side with the adherents of the Light? Will you make allowances for the defection of OUR FELLOW COMPANIONS to the other side? Or will you, as true warriors and Dark Side zealots, eliminate the problem before it escalates any further?

Roxas sat puffing his cigar until his turn had come. The Sergeant had listened intently to every person that spoke before him. He stood and approached the podium before turning to the collective of darksiders in the room. He took one final puff and then addressed them. “I’m the odd man out here, as I’m not a Jedi; I’m a Mandalorian, but we aren’t here for that.“ Roxas took another drag from his cigar. “There cannot be darkness without light and vice versa. One cannot exist without the other. As an example, everyone in this room uses the dark side of the Force, but we all have (Roxas raises his hands to make quotation marks) “light” tendencies. For instance, for those of us with families, wives, or children; they obviously feel love and compassion , which are traits of the light side. We also feel a duty to our allies and are united, which is opposite from the Sith of old. As Locke stated earlier, our brotherhood as adapted and changed with many obstacles and grown stronger because of it. And I agree that they could be an asset. Some of them may be able to be used to spy on Skywalker‘s order.” The Mandalorian took a final puff of his cigar and then stabbed it out in an ash tray. “Dark or light…” The Obelisk continued “…doesn’t matter, but what does matter is if they are your ally or not. House Odan-Urr wants to stay apart of the brotherhood for a reason or they would not have asked to have a house within our organization. I believe that they still wish to hold their ties to the Brotherhood and the people that they know in the Brotherhood. They must feel a sense of duty or belonging to want to stay, so they cannot be fully counted out of the Brotherhood.”

While I see your point Roxas, i counter with one that my brothers and sisters bring up and wish to expand upon. The brotherhood is called the Dark Jedi Brotherhood; we amount to a certain air of secrecy. With this lightsided house amongst us this secrecy is threatened. Think about this. All Jedi are to protect themselves and the innocent against those like us who dive into this black abyss. They are practically threatening us by being here. History dictates over and over again that the lightside works against us to kill us and other of our ways. Why should we keep them with in our boundaries?

I saw we give them a nice farewell in arms, let them teach their own beliefs elsewhere. My family is threatened just with them being here. My son and my daughter who have already begun to study our doctrine face the risk of being plucked from my home and taken away to train in their lightsided beliefs. I do not wish to see my children put into such prosperous place. They should be outside of our borders, they all talk to one another and who knows maybe Skywalker himself will stop by for a nice chat? Then what our entire being is put into question.

I ask of you to those who do wish these lightsiders in our borders are you prepared for war that will occur if this one group attracts the likes of Skywalker and the Galactic Alliance.

It is the stance with this group. *points out the others against * that this lightsiders be shown a one way street out of here so that our borders are safe.