Dying Sith

The Sith are dying. It's sad but true. We must recruit more people.

Oh well, give me your comments, maybe after the Sith outlook is changed by the SHW maybe more people will join.

From the perspective of someone who has been in each Order, I don't see that the Sith is dying any more than the Obelisk, especially with the DJB becoming more of an RPG environment.

On the other hand, with the Order restrictions completely eliminated, it's all in your head that the Sith is on the way down. As a Sith you can still participate in FPS (JO/JA) events - that were previously only for Obelisk - and all writing events - which used to be Krath Only.

Yes - from a DJB-traditional standpoint the Sith, as a Flight Sim platform, is pretty much beaten dead, but that just means it's time to branch out. Get into Battlefront. Get into Run-On comps. Do whatever you can to stay active.

[EDIT] The Orders will eventually make sense again.

True Kaine. It's going to be better in the future anyways, we'll just have to wait. My perspective on things is people joining the Krath order because of Order descriptions on the join form. Everyone is joining them because they don't have any platforms.

Well, I plan on submitting a heck of a bunch of art and stories. The Sith never die, they just hide darkside artifacts everywhere. So where do I submit?
thanks, Macron

Maybe I'm a little biased, but I don't see the Sith as dying. I do agree, recruiting is something we should all be trying to encourage, and enhance, but I see the Sith as more of evolving. We're at a period right now, where we can shape ourselves, do anything, and be so much more than may have ever been intended for our Order. I think with support of the long-standing members, and the enthusiasm of the newer generation, we'll continue to survive, and to thrive successfully.

For Macron, you submit depending on what you want to submit. If you choose to participate in Lannie's (KHP) monthly topics, they go to whomever she chooses to run the events. If it's general fiction, I'd say to submit to the Dark Voice, to add your own creativity to the Brotherhood. I'm also running some things, particularly my "Sith Lords Reborn" competition.

For that comp, there were eight Dark Lords of the Sith before Marka Ragnos, and numerous other Sith Lords who served the Dark Lord, commanding legions, ruling their own worlds, etc. Your task is to create and describe one of the Dark Lords, or one of their vassal Sith Lords. Describe appearance, personality, their legions, their powers, anything you like; you can even submit images along with your written submission. The comp ends at the end of this month, but there's medals and other prizes for the winners!

Aha! I have a great idea.... I'll finish it and get back to you.
thanks Macron

What we need is for Lucasarts to release a new flight sim or something

I've got your sith Lord done, tell me where to send her... shes a tough one. Hope you like the graphic

thanks

thats a misconception about Sith. Sith dont necessarily pilot all the time. heck, the whole Empire wasnt Sith, they were all recruited members in the movies. thats why Bloodfyre/Gui, the good SHW is changing everything.

Another thing, more people are joining Krath later in their DB "career" because of the KHPs influence. I dont know how it works but it just happens. Please think of Sith as the leaders, they arent pilots, they arent goons, theyre people who expect to get things done at a push of a button.

You'd have to know the history of the Sith Order as it was in the DB, Shisca. You're missing part of the story, so it probably doesn't all make sense. In any case, people don't join the Krath because of the KHP's influence. If people switch Orders, it's because they want to try and do something else, or are using it to develop their character. That's usually what the reason is these days.

IN any event, the Sith are still not dying.

IN any event, the Sith are still not dying.




*bleeds all over Bf*

Maybe I'm a little biased, but I don't see the Sith as dying. I do agree, recruiting is something we should all be trying to encourage, and enhance, but I see the Sith as more of evolving. We're at a period right now, where we can shape ourselves, do anything, and be so much more than may have ever been intended for our Order. I think with support of the long-standing members, and the enthusiasm of the newer generation, we'll continue to survive, and to thrive successfully.


I can't be any more in agreement with BF. Our order is FAR from dying and even if our number is lowered in these years we are still an important part of the Brotherhood. Expecially now that we are not stuck with a single game or plaform, our possibility to grow are immenses. Just think at all the hardcore players over the internet that are fond with the Siths due movies and all, these are all "potential" members of our order. Hell, in America's Army there's a Clan called SITH !! We are not dying, we are reoganizing.
Even fictionally the Sith order was thought dead to took controll of the galaxy in the end, think at that heh >:)

americas army is da bomb. it should be a platform.

I love that game too, infact it's what I do when I don't process things for you guys =P
But for being an actual platform, it lack the main point of being a SW game =P

I am quite happy to be a Sith, even if I am a newbie. I grew up with Star wars, and have always been fascinated with the dark Side characters. I remember seeing "A New Hope" and seeing Vader for the first time. I'll never forget that. He both frightened and fascinated me at the same time. I am not much of a gamer ala Tie fighter (I beat it years ago) but I am way into RPG's. And I joined, right? I'm glad I found the Brotherhood.
Take the example of the ancient Sith alchemists. When constructing lightsaber crystals, they would use the force to lay down every molecule of the growing crystal so that it was perfect in their forge. The Jedi could never even come close to that level of technology. We are innovators, able to change our forms and tactics to conquer every situation.
We're not dying, just transforming.

I still think it would be better for us to have a stable flightsim base like we had in the old days. I'm not talking just about new games either. Bring back TIE!

I hear bits and pieces about people still making missions, but sadly an actual compendium has never materialized. We should have had a concentrated mission building effort right after the Exodus (well we did until it fizzled out). Then we might not have had that horrible slump that basically wiped us out before we hobbled into this Orderless society thing.

If I wasn't a writer, and basically become a Krath, I'd have quit the DB long ago.

Remember when "Krath" was an insult? LOL

Actually, the mission compendium isn't lost, just on hold. There was a site that Cybey coded up for Goat, but got lost along the way of recoding the site, and now, must wait for Rebirth. There was a Sith Order site that Mav created for Goat, that got lost along the way. Rekio is looking into that site, and we're going to try and utilize it, and restart the mission compendium, to hopefully include other stuff like JO/JA maps, skins, SP levels, etc., and make it allowable for people to upload their own, and have people allowed to test stuff for release (I guess Rekio says that's how the TC stuff used to work, sort of).

It's people like your very own SHW who make the Sith order possible.

I beg to differ, there are many more sith out there that are active and do what they can to make the order better and generally make the DB better, the most obvious one would be the SHW.

you're right. when someone else makes a difference they will be noticed too.

Vess, I miss TIE with a passion

If it was still supported and I could play it on this comp, I'd be playing it right now. Lucasarts would make a killing if they just made TIE compatible (probably no small feat but also not too expensive - not as expensive as making an entirely new game) with newer versions of windows.

Nevertheless, I doubt that's going to happen anytime soon. I don't think we need a stable flight sim so much as we need a stable platform for ALL SW games period. Something like how JK was a cornerstone of gaming back in the day. There just hasn't been anything like that lately!

Oh but hell no...the Sith ain't dead or dying

i think that the alternative to a new TIE sim for new systems is just by modding games like JO/JA.

I still think the Sith need to not think so narrow-mindedly. Break out of the only Flight Sims mentality. Get into SWBF, JO/JA, hell even BF1942 or UT2K4 with the SW mods. If you must go with a flight sim, grab Alliegance. I wasn't keen on it, but then again I'm not a good pilot anymore.

Don't get me wrong - I loved the flight sims like TIE, XvT and XWA, but it seems kind of dumb to me to make yourself tied to the games. Branch out - if anything to stay active.

I wholeheartedly agree with Kaine on this. I mean if we are a well rounded Order we should actually make it true. Hell look at me I'm a Sth and i do the ACC religously (we should write more too).

Actually, Sith, Obelisk, and Krath could still do whatever they wanted even WHEN we had Order Restrictions (towards the end at least). Now that it's gone, organization has gone to crap. And I've still seen no change to the DB join form about "What game platforms do you own? What time zone are you in?", these are things that shoulda been there months ago. The very day we went to "orderless" platforms. Do you know how hard it is to find out some of this crap?

That's why orderless platforms is stupid. You can still have order-specific platforms, and let people participate in whatever they want. That way, Sith are people who join who PRIMARILY like to play Flight Sims etc, but can still play whatever else they want. It sure as hell organizes everything better. If you're not going to have that though, at the very least the DC could put a bit more required information up on the join form (Game platforms owned, Time Zone, etc). You'd think this would have been a given when we switched to orderless. It's not like it's hard to add something like that lol

I thought the DB was a lot cooler when each Clan had a House for each Order. Multi-Order Houses obviously haven't enhanced the DB at all. Blade is right, it's just screwed up the organization of everything.

Or if they keep MO houses, they should get rid of Orders entirely. There is no difference between a Krath, a Sith, and an Obelisk anymore except "roleplaying" differences. But hardly anyone in the DB even roleplays to begin with. So having Orders just unnecessarily confuses everything.

Roleplaying wont really enhance this club. More gaming will. Roleplaying is entirely the wrong focus for the DB. Look at FES, they have 1500 active members (something like 3000 members total), and they play a wide range of non-SW games, but still manage to keep thier SW roots. There is no reason the DB can't be just as successful as FES, and still manage to incorporate RPG elements too. But gaming is primarily what attracts large crowds of people.

350,000 people play Half-Life 2... 300,000 people play Halo 2 on any given day. I think theres like 500 people on the entire internet that play the Star Wars RPG lol. And yet this RPG crap keeps persisting while gaming is seriously being neglected.

Actually, I'd love to see the inclusion of other games, like Ghost Recon, Halo, UT, or whatever else. If we have the people to support it, we'll start including it. With the basic negation of Guilds as we knew them, there's room for utilizing more games in moderate-to-major comps, as long as people are playing it consistantly, and not just two or three people saying "we want to play it for the ICTE," or whatever.

The join form have platforms on it again? Thats... wierd. Those had been removed, don't tell me they've been put back on again?

Though I do agree. If they are back they cause half the problem. The nature of most people is they prefer to join one Order and stick with it meaning if the join form is sending the idea that if you want to write you're better off being a Krath then no wonder the Krath get the majority of the recruits. As thats the thing, we can preach all we like about "there aren't Order restrictions" but a new apprentice joining in the join form doesn't know jack... as far as they know the join form says something about Krath and not owning any of the other games, so its not rocket science which Order will get the most attention.

In respect of the Guilds, personally I think they need a serious rethink.

Allegiance was popular. Was.
Battlfront was popular. Was.

Two games that had a lot of potential and yet for some reason fizzled out for no apparent reason. They should have become a lot more than they are but they've not and they had the full support of the club with the Dark Council itself trying to implement them into the structure.

The thing to take note here is if its hard enough to make a game successful when the Dark Council is involved nobody can expect a group of ordinary members to achieve anything with a Guild. Thats why every single Guild has failed. If it doesn't have official support its not going to get anywhere; as we've seen that even with official support its hard enough for it to get anywhere.

if the DC read this, a lot of things would be better and changed.

Actually Goat, if you take a look at the join form, there are no platforms mentioned on it. But it could be a good idea to have a section asking what games people have, not "Join this Order if you have these games." Just a basic "check all that apply" style section, so we can see what our members have, and support what will likely be actively used.

"Allegiance was popular. Was." Actually, it still is, just depends on who you talk to. Personally, I think Gryffon has a good idea in working --as a member-- to help get hype up for it again. If more people get into it, I'm putting a ship or two up for grabs in a Tournement; the size depending on the participation. I've mentioned that before. I've already approved the idea with Jac and Mav. I might do the same for Battlefront.

"Battlefront was popular. Was." Yeah, that's no joke, but unfortunately, some games just suck. It's too easy to win, and thus, not enough of a challenge. It'd be kind of fun if it took a bit more time to "win the battle," if you could do it in successive maps/stages per planet, so that it was actually like pacifying each world one city at a time, more vehicles, more character types, playable Jedi characters, etc. You could talk about anything. There's a few mods for it, even one to make the Jedi characters playable, but I'm thinking more people are going to want some better options for this game before there's ever a major player base. Yeah, there are people playing BF anyways, the server used to be full daily. Most weren't bad, but more than a handful were team-killing pricks, probably because they didn't see it as fun enough to actually try and implement stratgey and such. Who knows.

It'd still be fun to support more than Star Wars. Khobai makes a good point about the FES, which supports other games, and still keeps its Star Wars roots.

Goatham is right. The problem is the approach in which the Dark Council keeps taking to support non-SW games. You either support a game 100%, or you dont support it at all. Guilds were an ineffectual attempt to "officially" support an "unofficial" game. Obviously it failed to produce the intented result.

The orderless/multi-order house thing looks like a complete failure to me. Clans and Houses are haphazardly organized, and most Clans have one, or even two, more Houses than they actually need. I liked the rigid organization of the old system, but I also liked the flexibility of having multi-ordered houses. Unfortunately, multi-ordered houses are completely pointless if you dont have an actual distinction between the three orders.

Personally I think Rebirth is a huge problem too. The Dark Council is relying far too much on what Rebirth might do in the future, to realize what they could do NOW to vastly improve the Dark Brotherhood in the present.

Unless Rebirth has been heavily altered or expanded since I last read the proposal, its not going to address very many of the fundamental problems with the DB. Especially not the ones weve discussed here. I just wish they would finish the damn thing and stop raising everyones hopes and expectations.

wonk

Khobai, I completely agree with you about Rebirth.

The expectations for it are far too high and I just feel it won't address all of the problems. I also think we need to support other gaming platforms. What else can I say but what has already been said?

I've been placed in charge of the SWGN site, which is supposed to be the Brotherhood's news source for our gaming platforms. Official or not I'm going to throw a lot of info up there about unsupported games with SW mods like UT2K4 and BF1942. Maybe it'll spark an interest, maybe not.

Either way it'll be a nice step in the direction I feel we should be taking.

sweet, finally i can play CoD with DB and submit scores.+

sweet, finally i can play CoD with DB and submit scores.+



No. That's not what I said at all. I said I'd have the info out there on games with SW mods.

I said nothing about playing these games and making it count in the DJB.

I think the real problem with other games is that theres no clear position on whether we do or do not support them. I remember not so long ago reading a post by Mav saying that if people wanted to just come along and get together to play any sort of game they could and would be rewarded for it. The problem now is that after just reading Kaine's post I'm no longer sure of the official position.

If I'm not sure then you can be sure that anyone outside the higher communitation echelon doesn't have the slightest idea. I think this highlights the problem of the Guilds because they've been something of a way of flip flopping around the issue and not deciding one way or another: Do we support non Star Wars games or do we not? It's a yes or no answer... but the Guilds are a "sort of" answer.

Personally I don't have any problem if we allowed people to get CFs if they came along one ICTE and wanted to play matches of Halo or Half Life or Unreal or anything. They obviously want to play those games because they already play those games. In my view its better to encourage them to think of that as a DB activity and a reason to stay in the DB than want to start their own clubs or join other clubs. In a way there's a good argument for people to want to leave and join FES rather than us because they know there they'd get acknowledged for playing games they actually want to play not ones they have to dust off every time they dig them out of the cupboard.

I'm hardly innocent myself. If I want to relax do I play JO and XWA? Hell no. If I want to relax I might play more recent Star Wars games like SWG and SWBF, and soon RC, but I very seldom play JO and XWA by choice. The only thing that makes me play them is when a competition comes along that warrants me digging out the disks. If I want to relax I'm far more likely to load up Halo or Half Life or something and play that instead.

I'm certain thats true of practically every other member of the Dark Brotherhood. It seems a lot better to therefore encourage them to still have a reason to want to play games against other members of the Dark Brotherhood rather than go off and join completely different gaming clans.

That's not to say our traditional games wouldn't still have a purpose. There's no way we could ever properly support non Star Wars games for major competitions like Great Jedi Wars so there would still be ample importance placed on JO, XWA and all the other games. The difference is in the periods between major competitions (like now) when activity tends to dwindle people could relax but still have a reason to want to stick around in the Brotherhood.

Everyone keeps saying they want a break from major competitions. In my case, and I'm sure in a lot of peoples cases, the reason for that is they're tired of being made to play JO and XWA constantly. While everyone is happy to every now and then for a big competition at the other times of the year people prefer to play the games that are new and refreshing. Rather than have them go off and forget about the Dark Brotherhood when they do that it seems beneficial to have them hang around and keep with us.

What's the answer? Yes, we do. If you have people who want to play matches of Halo, or anything, and you want to use it for DB activity, go ahead. Are we a Star Wars club? Absolutely. Do we need to start supporting more of the members' interests and desires? Absolutely. Have I talked with Jac and Mav about this? Yep, several times. They feel the same way. They want to encourage more diversity in the Club.

Maybe we could have a "non Star Wars game" tournament once a month or every two weeks or something? It'd be a good way of sending the message that we do support all kinds of other games. It wouldn't necessarily have to restrict people playing our traditional games but it could be aimed at encouraging people to play other types of games.

I don't know... maybe it could have a "theme". One week it might be aimed at Halo players, the next week Half Life, etc. That way, maybe the Herald if he's in charge of the SWGN, could announce that the next week's tournament was going to be a "Halo Night" so people who play Halo should try and come along or something.

It wouldn't have to be restricted to Halo... but it would be a way of trying to get people of similar interests to come along.

*shrugs*

Oh yeah, let's have a "Halo 2 Day" where everyone plays Halo.

Or we could just play Halo 2 EVERDAY since its about 10 times more popular than every Star Wars game combined.

This club could have 4,000 members easily, if the Dark Council had the slightest clue about how to tap into the popularity of games likes Halo and Halflife 2. Unfortunately, they just don't get it...

And no offense Bloodfyre, but I was telling Jac and Mav, about this kind of [Expletive Deleted] months ago when I was OHC. And their response was that Rebirth would take care of it

aside from what you said Khobai, i'll be quoting Xanos on the 2 weeks non-SW tourneys. i think it would be better if people could play the non-SW games EVEN during ICTE and GMRG events. some people are really young members and they dont really buy games so it would be a lot nicer if a variety of different First person shooter games were put out there or even getting some programmers in teh DB to make mods for games like UT2K4 just like kaine said. even if the games werent modded Sci-fi games would be a great new alternative to this club for MP games.

But... why join a SW gaming club to play Halo 2? Why not go join a Halo 2 clan or some other random thing? I'd take JO over Halo 2 anytime. Why? Because it's related to Star Wars. I joined this club to play SW games online, not to play other random FPSs online - that's why those games have their own clubs and clans and [Expletive Deleted].

Sure we can get together and play with other people you know from the DB but getting new members that are just about playing Halo or HL2 online would introduce so many lamers into the club. Khobai - how many people do you think would actually join an online SW gaming club to play Halo 2 or Half-Life 2? My guess would be not a lot as those games have tons of avenues of their own. Maybe if we put more concentration on the games we do have and stop complaining about them not being good as other games I think we'd have a lot more activity.

People's first problem is they don't explore the entire game. Most every person who plays JO or JA stick mainly to sabers which gets boring. The guns are fun, despite what people think. FPS is FPS, theres no huge changes to guns minus what they shoot and what they look like. Play with different rules if you like - Full Force Guns with no healing/shield pickups is intense. Or playing just bryars, almost the same rules as JK's BGJ NF. No pickups or healing in between kills. You just keep going at it. It's tons of fun and we've got more and more people playing it. Then there's things like CTF. CTF is amazing. We play as often as we can get all the people, which lately has been very often. But I rarely see anyone not in Taldryan even trying to get matches outside of the gaming nights. Honest opinion, if we didn't have CFs to reward for every match won/every 3 losses only a handful of people would even MP in the DB.

How about we lose the other random games and get back to what this club is supposed to be about: Star Wars. Or, as you guys seem to want, we can just support every game in creation and hope to have 5000+ members split over 2000+ games - now that's a DB I want to a part of...

Eh... Khobs and Shad both raise good points.

In Khobs' case, he's right that a wider gaming platform would attract more people. And, if we 'semi-officially' supported the games such as Xanos suggested, we could just getthe current memberbase to be more active. But I say 'semi-officially' support it because we don't want it to become the main focus (as it very well could). We might even attract more members with this idea.

But...

We move onto Shad's point. We don't need 4000+ members who'll ruin the Star Warsesque 'Dark Jedi' theme we have going on in the club. Why do we need 4000+ members, if more than half of those people won't help support the club in its foundation? Peronally, I don't see the point at all. And as he said, we should be bothered to use the games we have now and exploit/use them to their fullest: Use guns with Force combos (or whatever) to give it variety; use different mods have different styles of gameplay; use different in-game modes instead of just dueling to have more fun.


Both cases have their valid points, but it just ends up on where we want to take the club. Do we want to remain true to SW, or do we just want a large 'active' member base? Also, how desperate are we to become 'more active' in order to use these other non-SW games?

Read what Bloodfyre said.

People can ALREADY play games like Halo at ANY competition.

I suggested a "Halo 2 Night" or whatever as a way of encouraging people to get together and play new and different games. Right now most people don't think you can play games other than Star Wars games.

The one catch with just saying "ICTE is everything" is that everything is a lot of things, meaning finding an opponent isn't necessarily going to be that easy. The majority of people going to the ICTE are currently still JO and XWA players. I suggested a "themed" evening every couple of weeks as a way of encouraging people of similar interests to get together at the same time.

Whoops... didn't see that this had gone onto a third page...

I agree with what Shadow said about how we don't want a bunch of Halo fanatics.

However like I said in my earlier post the primary reason people join the DJB is still because its Star Wars. I wouldn't recommend following the path Khobai suggested of recruiting people using other forms of games as that wouldn't achieve a lot. While it would be nice to have a club of 4000 members if they're not in the slightest bit interested in Star Wars there's no point them being here.

The reason behind supporting other games isn't in order to recruit but in order to revitalise our existing recruits. After somebody joins the DJB to play Republic Commando I don't care if they play the odd Halo match with other people. They came here for Star Wars so at the end of the day that's what will keep them here. But it gives them a bit more diversity so they're less likely to get bored.

That's the key word I think. Too much of a good thing does get boring. We clearly don't want to shift our focus from Star Wars games, because recruiting masses of people that way isn't achieving anything, but on the basis of providing some more enjoyment for the members who are already part of the DJB I don't see what harm it can cause. I can only see it helping because it reduces the chances of them getting bored and going off to join other clubs to suit changing interests.

FES plays halo 2, and all of them like Star Wars

FES plays halo 2, and all of them like Star Wars




Yes, but FES' Star Wars structure is very loose. They're the "1000+ member base gameclubs" ones. Yes, their main focus is Star Wars... but the way they're set up doesn't limit or hinder the use of other games.

However... they've managed to balance things out. So points in their favour. Question is... are we TOO much Star Wars to be able to balance it out like they have?

The thing with FES is they're purely a gaming club. They don't have any roleplaying or writing or anything like that... not that I'm aware of at least, and if they do I presume that its a very minor part with a much smaller interest group.

If you took the DJB and stripped away all the medals, all the ranks, all the clans... there wouldn't be a whole lot left. How many would stick around just to play games with their friends? By comparison FES isn't that club driven from my knowledge. They play games to play games rather than get medals and promotions.

My ideal number for the DJB is 500 or so active members. That would make for 50+ per Clan. To me thats more than enough to aim for. We don't need a giant superstructure like FES, its not the type of club we are. Don't forget also that FES is a big SWG club, a lot of their numbers are probably from SWG. I also don't know if they work on a Subgroup structure, and what the chances are of many of their members being clones or not.

Exactly, the DB and FES are very different clubs. Most people join the DB and stick around for the medals, the ranks, the positions, etc. Hell, we can't get our people to play without offering medals and promos. How many people here play Halo 2 on XBOX live? I had to suffer through 30 mins of it at a friends house with random idiots singing and being huge [Expletive Deleted F-word]wads. The same problems arised when people wanted to recruit more from the zone. Gamers, in general, are assholes. SW fans or not. The RP aspect of the DB is what keeps most of those assholes away. That is one of the best parts of the DB in my opinion because it makes things more enjoyable.

FES does roleplaying and fictional writing also, its just not a primary focus.

Khobs: to right way to put it is that it's a minimalistic/microscopic aspect. However, it doesn't affect the people/the way club is run on any other scale other than that it provides something else to the members other than gaming, shoudl they be arsed enough to do it.

Honestly I think Shadow is right. We are a SW club and that's what we should concentrate on. If we want to take into account a wider number of games, let's go with modded games but keep it with SW. I honetly don't understand why people want to be recognized for activities that have really actualy little to do with us. You want to play Halo 2, fine, do it but it has little to do with us. I for example play AAO daily, and have been doing it for a long time now but I never even asked for it to be a platform even if it's one of my favorite games ever. Why ? because it's not SW.
There are some MP games that recived some recognition in the beginning but were forgotten quite soon like SWGB or even the soo much hated FC. Why don't try to pull them out of the boxes and see it that may help us a bit before going to incorporate other games that have clearly little to do with us ?

Who are you to say that games like halflife 2 and halo 2 wouldnt enrich the DB? Have you personally spearheaded the attempt? are you the great and wise DB gaming guru? please impart your wisdom of how gaming in the DB is doomed to fail.

Everybody focuses on the negatives of what "might" happen "if" we tried a particular idea. And then everyone wonders why nothing ever changes for the better. How many times in history has a seemingly horrible idea yielded surprisingly beneficial results?

It was just a thought anyway, to get people to begin thinking out of the box again.

Actually, I think some games, even beyond the SW genre, could affect us beneficially. What do I mean? Some Obelisk like to think of themselves as a sort of SpecOps branch. Though i don't play them myself, I'd imagine games like Ghost Recon, Halo, etc. might help fill that. Not exactly Star Wars, yeah. Possibly fitting into the club, yes. Republic Commando is going to boost those aspects greatly, but not everyone can shell out 50 bucks for it immediately. I know I can't, and I intend to buy it at some point in the future. It's not so much thinning out the reason we're here, as helping enhance it for those who have no other alternative. We don't have to support every game, but we can utilize those that the majority have, and would game with.

another point of interest is peoples crappy computers. i have a decent comp, but not good enough to run Republic Commando. i can run it on xbox for sure, but not PC.

From what ive read, and from what others have told me, the Single Player in Republic Commando is awesome.

I've heard mixed reviews about the Multiplayer... its either marginally good (but not as good as single player) or really bad. I would imagine it depends on what kind of games you like to play.

I would not rely on a single game to rekindle the gaming spirit of this club (Because if you recall, everyone was hyped for Battlegrounds and it was a huge letdown); and especially not where Star Wars titles are involved, there are far too few SW games released, and only a very small percentage of them have proven to be good. Yoda Stories being the #1 SW game of all time.

If anything, I think Empire At War is a better bet then RC for attracting new members. Empire at War can actually compete in the RTS niche where the FPS market is already monopolized by the previously mentioned non-SW games. Plus its being made by former westwood employees, and Command and Conquer is one of the best RTS games of all time (unfortunately all the wacky C&C prequels/sequels sucked).

As for people's computers not being good enough... if that's true, then the DB should continue to support older games. Take Allegiance for example, I honestly believe the implentation of Allegiance as a new game platform was ill-handled. The game was (and still is) awesome, but most people were either oblivious to its existence, unable to get the game to function properly due to easily fixable software/router problems, or simply werent motivated or encouraged enough to try it out.

Goatham, Shadow...

1 How many times has a new Star Wars game been released that we've all based our hopes on to help "revive gaming" in the DB, that turned out to suck ass?

2 How often do new PC Multiplayer Star Wars games get released?

I don't need to wait for you to reply to get answers to those two questions.

Alright here comes my long ass post below, as I'm just now catching up on all the crap that's gone on in this thread

Khobai is right, we really need to expand our support of non-Star Wars games. Now I'm not saying to abandon Star Wars Games or to completely replace them with titles like Unreal Tournament 2004 or Half-Life 2, but we definitely need something more than 1 decent game every 4(000) years to keep the gaming aspect of this club alive and going. Sorry to say it, but the majority of Star Wars games suck ass. They aren't the high quality that they used to be. I'm sure a few of us remember what it was like when XvT just came out, and DB gaming was in its prime. Today, it's nothing like that. Back in the day I could go into #DB and go "JK?", and get a minimum of four or five replies saying "yes", and then we'd go play Jedi Knight Multiplayer. Four of Five MINIMUM. Just by saying "JK?". I'm not joking, or exaggerating in any way.

What's wrong with recruiting from games like UT2k4, HL2, etc? Do you think Star Wars fans don't play those games? Of course they do. "They're assholes", please...the DB has its fair share of assholes. One persons asshole could be another persons friend. Shadow and Goatham, you're both assholes in my opinion. I'm an asshole in your opinions. That's not an excuse for not recruiting. Quite frankly I think the higher-ups need to implement better ways of introducing new platforms in to the Dark Jedi Brotherhood. The Lord Marshal position was supposed to be here to accomplish just that, then it didn't work that way at all, and the position was disbanded. I agree also in the point that Allegiance was poorly implemented. It was pretty good during the Sith War, as we had DCers there playing the game, people would meet up and play. After that it went to crap. The only DBers I ever see playing Allegiance are Khobai and BenevolentWhiner. I'm not going to get in to that, though, as I know plans are being made to promote Allegiance and help popularize it in the Dark Brotherhood.

And, Goatham...yeah the FES is largely a gaming club. They also write stories, poetry, chat on IRC, just like we do. Quite frankly, I don't care about the writing aspects of this club. I could care less. I'm here to play games. I mean, rank and medals and positions are great, they're cool things to back gaming up, but it shouldn't replace it. The same goes with all these "rebirth" concepts.

I'm sure Rebirth is great, guys...but where in the hell does gaming fit in to all of it? You know, computer games? Sith and Obelisk orders? Gaming? Yeah, DB gamers exist. I've seen absolutely *nothing* implemented in the DB in terms of the gaming side. New games come out, and you guys say "Okay, it's out, go play it." Of course the excuse we get is, "We can't force people to play games." Please. Gah, this is turning in to a bitch fest.

My point is that we need to concentrate a bit more on the gaming aspects of the Brotherhood for a change.

EDIT: As for games like Allegiance and Battlefront being popular at one point, and then dying...HMMMMMMM let's see how many activities we've had for those platforms!

ALLEGIANCE - Great Jedi War: One Allegiance event. 1 Paragraph on how the event works. No DC attempts to help organize matches (which is essential for that type of game). One match played.

BATTLEFRONT - None. Zero. Read above for same Dark Council neglect. Please take note that I know Bloodfyre is working hard to implement plans for Allegiance and this platform, but at the time BF "was" popular, he wasn't on the DC yet.

So really, of *course* these games died out Goatham. It all comes to the Dark Council needing to stop jacking off about Rebirth and work on the gaming side. Because I hate to be an "asshole" again to the almighty Dark Council but a credits System where you can buy Stormtrooper Rifles and *CLUBS* (ooooh clubs!) aren't going to save the DB

Random... extremely late response to a dead thread but whatever. Yeah, there are assholes in the DB, I think most people would agree that the two people overly pushing for non-SW games are the biggest at the moment, but that changes with time. The problem, as I think I said somewhere before, is that recruiting people who "like SW" but only play HL2 or CS or UT2k4, is that they aren't into the fictional RP aspect of the DB. Whether most people believe it or not the DB is basically Star Wars roleplaying. A lot of us filter the majority of it out, but everyone who joins the DB and stays likes getting medals, likes getting promotions, like the powers the GJWs, etc.

The most non-SW game recruiting will get us is a handful of real members and hundreds of inactive rogues. The second they have to do something too "SWsy" they'll just say [Expletive Deleted F-word] this and immerse themselves in their game of choice again.

Besides, these people are used to playing games with no set of rules or morals. The DB is all about fairplay and has a fairly strict set of rules compared to random gamers. That alone will make them despise the DB within a week. Don't you guys despise the DB for those very reasons?


PS: I don't recall saying that RC will save the DB. I do recall arguing with Kaine on another topic about that subject. They put way too much faith in a mere video game to save something like the DB, and then what happens? It didn't live up to some preconceived standards so its bashing time! Woo!

As for Allegiance - I like the game and I think we should implement it. If you read BFs reports you'll see that he is doing that, and that it will most likely be a big part of the next Sith War.

Battlefront wasn't a great game. Why? It wasn't really about guns, it wasn't really about beating other people, it was about AI. Better guns, no AI, smaller maps. Then you might have a decent game there. Also, there is no chance in hell of ever editing BF (at least not by the common person) if you've downloaded the 400+MB zip of .exe's that they call tools you'd understand that real fast.

Yeah, I said in my post that I know Bloodfyre is getting stuff together for Allegiance and Battlefront. I don't blame you for not reading the whole thing though, as it was awfully long. And "editing" Battlefront, I've looked at the tools and I totally agree with you that editing that platform would be hell. Really, though, games like that aren't about user-created maps, total conversions, or modifications as much as they are about huge multiplayer games. Now don't get me wrong, I know custom maps and the like were a part of the BF1942 and BFV communities, but not as huge as traditional lower-scale first person shooters like JO or RC. User-editing isn't essential to a game like that. Organized teams and match / practice times are.

And the A.I, you can disable that if you want as a server administrator. As for lack of players, I don't know where that argument comes from because the Dark Jedi Brotherhood server (when I played) was *always* full with a full count of 50 players. Obviously I'm not talking about 50 Dark Brotherhood players, but nevertheless it's not like every Battlefront match is mostly A.I dependant. The few Battlefront practice sessions that we had (a while back), we had about 12 DB players (sometimes almost 20), which is more than enough to field a good match. As I said, the A.I is optional. Sometimes we played with it on, and sometimes we played with it off. Don't quote me on all of this for "recent" reference though, as I haven't played Battlefront in a while.

I'm not sure if you played Battlefront or not Shadow (I don't remember seeing you on, but then again like I said before I haven't played it for a while), but I can guarentee you that matches aren't won by the A.I, they're won by human players. Aim, Weapons, etc, are crucial to winning a match. I mean, this was back before they had any patches out. I've read up on what the new patches have provided and from what I've seen the game has been improved by quite a bit. I'm getting my PC upgrades sometime today and I'll probably endup playing Battlefront again just to see what's new. If I find myself enjoying it and having a good time I'll probably get back into it again. When Battlefront was being promoted by Independant Members of the Brotherhood, there was quite a lot of interest and everyone who played it seemed to have a good time and enjoy their play experiences. I guess it all died out, I don't know from what, but I think it's worth a shot to try and get that platform going again, regardless if you don't like it, Shadow.

EDIT: Oh, as for my late reply, I didn't realize this thread was dead. I didn't look at the post dates, but I saw it was still high up on the list in the forum so I just assumed people were still replying to it. Let's revive it

The real problem though Blade is one that you said yourself. We're not doing enough as a club. The game doesn't make a whole lot of difference, Republic Commando and Battlefront may not be the chart toppers everyone hoped but that doesn't mean they've both not been successful. If people weren't buying these games Lucas Arts wouldn't be able to afford to keep turning out sub-rate games.

It amazes me, amazes me, that there were always like 50 people on the DB Battlefront server (like you said) and yet as a club we did nothing to recruit them. Nothing. I'm sure you and a few others might have tried to recruit them yourselves (which is cool) but the reality is: its not your jobs. While it's a great thing you might have done it the club should have been doing it and not expect you, for all practical purposes "the little people", to do its job.

I've been going on, and on, and on about how the DB needs to have a clear approach to implementing new games and how to make the most and recruit from them since we split from the Emperor's Hammer. We could probably run a brilliantly active club using Yoda Stories (no matter how crap the game might be) if we actually did things right and recruited properly. Somebody could probably make more out of a Pong Club than we did with SW Battlefront if they actually ran a decent recruitment campaign.

"They put way too much faith in a mere video game to save something like the DB, and then what happens? It didn't live up to some preconceived standards so its bashing time! Woo!"

That is the sad truth. Two weeks, just two weeks, after the game's release some people are already saying its not everything they had hoped for. Now, if some people genuinely don't like the game, that's fine. But this is a club, its not just some people. There are THOUSANDS of people who have bought Republic Commando the world over in the past fortnight.

THOUSANDS.

And how many of them have we recruited? Like maybe a dozen?

Irrespective of how good or bad the game is there are still THOUSANDS of recruits. It doesn't matter how great or how crappy the game is the fact is there are still thousands of people playing it. There are more than enough people out there to keep the Dark Brotherhood super-active for months/years.

Yet we've recruited maybe a dozen? The problem clearly isn't what games we're playing, it's how we use the games we've got.

Now we're not going to recruit thousands of members in a fortnight. However does that mean we should just give up? Hell no.

The TIE Corps/Emperor's Hammer/Dark Brotherhood didn't spring up over night. These clubs took YEARS to become as big as they are. Republic Commando isn't going to recruit thousands over night. We need to support it for months/years, we need to keep at it, keep recruiting, and keep promoting it to make the most out of it and slowly build up a firm member base that plays and enjoys it and who will be playing it in years to come (like those people who still play Jedi Knight or TIE Fighter).

Its why I can't help but feel angry at us as a club for our total irresponible failure with SW Battlefront. Like you said Blade, the server was always full. Yet we did nothing. We just sat there on our pompous thrones thinking that we were so wonderful that those 50+ people would magically know to type www.darkjedibrotherhood.com into their browsers and join up.

Now I'm not saying that games like Half Life, Halo, Unreal etc. wouldn't help. They would, but until we get our act together and sort out the REAL problem- how we use those games, ANY games- they'd fail as much as Battlefront did. They might not fail as quickly but ultimately they'd still not get anywhere in the DB.

Just look at the Guilds. They failed. Lots of people have since taken the attitude of "the Guilds failed so people must not like non-Star Wars games". That's symbolic of the arrogance this club has developed. People assume that because the Guilds failed people must not like non-Star Wars games. Ignoring the real issue that the Guilds failed because the Guilds were poorly implemented.

But its not just non-Star Wars games. Battlefront again serves a purpose. Lots of people, the majority unfortunately, have taken the attitude that Battlefront is a failure just because it failed. It failed because WE failed to implement it properly, not because it was a bad game.

We failed. Not the game. Frankly I pray to God that we don't make the same screw up with Republic Commando. What worries me is I can already see the buzz of release wearing off and lots of people shelving it again like they did with Battlefront. Like I said, the Emperor's Hammer didn't pop up over night, it took years to grow to the size that it, and we, are. If we want to make use of Republic Commando we'll have to stick with it through the good times and the bad times for months/years. NOT do what we did with Battlefront and give up the instant things started to slow down when the initial buzz died down.

I figure I'll post this as a separate post rather than edit the last one. It summarises what I said rather well.

Main Page
News Page
Join Page
Mission Page
About Page

Look at all of the above and have a little think about what you see. Now look at the next series and have another think.

Main Page
Main Page
Main Page
News Page
Main Page

I'll tell you what I notice when thinking about the advantages and disadvantages of each.

Dark Brotherhood
The most important point is that nowhere on any of the Dark Brotherhood pages did I see it say that we now support Republic Commando. If I could be bothered to read down through all the News it probably mentioned it somewhere but thats it. Its not clear on the Main (splash) Page that we are a Gaming Club, its not even clear that we're a Star Wars club- the Splash banner is not that obvious (even the lightsaber doesn't scream Star Wars, he looks more like a vampire to me). I found one small mention of supporting Battlefront buried in the About Page though nothing at all on the Join Page regarding what we do as a club. The Join Page gives me the impression all the club does is Roleplaying and that nobody plays computer games but pursues this "Final Order" thing that I, as a Star Wars fan, have never heard of before. [Bare in mind I'm doing this from a non-member viewpoint].

Rebel Squadrons
No Splash Page but straight into an Information Page rather than a News Page. The first thing I read is "The Rebel Squadrons (RS) is an international gaming club dedicated to providing a fun and appropriate atmosphere based in the Star Wars universe." I then proceed to read a list that tells me what games the club plays. Unfortunately there is no mention of Republic Commando however there is an immediate mention of Battlefront my other most recently purchased game. It does call the Dark Forces series the "Star Wars Commando Series" which gives me some indication (even if wrong) that they probably do support Republic Commando.

Emperor's Hammer
I'm greeted with a Splash Page that tells me a little about the club. Its clear immediately that its a Star Wars club from the splash banner (pictures of Darth Vader can't get any more obvious and it says "Star Wars: Emperor's Hammer"). I feel compelled to read the stuff at the bottom of the page that tells me that it's a gaming club at least. Proceeding to the News Page I get swarmed with all kinds of information. I feel lost but my eyesight is drawn to the "Join the Empire" button at the top, hoping that it tells me something more about the club. Clicking "Join the Empire" I read some fictional information to motivate me and then a paragraph that tells me the club is "A successful Star Wars fan gaming organization with 9 years of online gaming experience. Over 700 New Battles and 3,500 new custom mission engagements designed by EH Members. Ten (10) Subgroups supporting v arious Star Wars game platforms. A large membership of thousands of Members." It sounds impressive. [Bare in mind again that an non-member has no idea of the validity of any of these statements other than that they sound good. People who have not been in the EH do not know that it sucks. People do not avoid joining the EH because Astatine is a moron. People join it first and only later find that out].

Force Elite Soldiers
I'm again greeted with a Splash Page but again it tells me immediately that this is obviously a Star Wars club from the picture of the AT-AT. I don't understand what the Divisions are so ignore those and click to go to the Main Page to find out more. I'm immediately reminded again that this must be a Star Wars club with an attractive top banner showing an AT-ST, TIE Fighters, a Stormtrooper and another AT-AT. I also read that this is a "Member Oriented Gaming Organization Since 2001". I see a large announcement depicting the box art for Republic Commando pointing me toward a download for the Demo. Finally I've found a Republic Commando club! What's more they seem to be promoting it heavily, taking up a large portion of the News Page permanently to encourage people to play the Demo. I see news articles about the new Star Wars Episode III Trailer and an announcement about the new SWG Expansion: Rage of the Wookies. The rest of the page is rather cluttered and I'm a little unsure where to go from here to find out more about the club. My eyesight does focus toward the top of the page where the membership count of "1519" seems to be shouting at me. I finally find the "Become a Member" button at the top left though felt it was hard to find.

Star Vipers
I'm greeted immediately with a News Page and no information about the club. I assume it's a Star Wars club from the top banner however it does appear to be a little dated, the graphics for the Star Destroyers and TIE Fighters appear rather old. I question whether the club is still active. I check the news to see the latest was in January, I figure that it must still be somewhat active yet has graphics that are clearly out of date for 2005 (I'm doing this from a gamers point of view; to some gamers graphics mean a lot about the quality). I look down the main menu from the top and don't see anything such as About or Join until I get half way down the menu. I decide to click More Information as I currently know nothing about this club. I get a page with a lot of writing. I finally read and discover it is a gaming club but it is not that clear and I have to read through all the long text.
-------------------------------------------------

Alright so what the heck was the point of all that? Basically I wanted to get across the idea of whether or not we're doing enough to promote new games. I also deliberately made you look at FES before the Star Vipers to demonstrate contrast.

Now none of the webpages are perfect and all of them have their advantages and disadvantages, so before somebody chooses to be a smartass I'm saying now that I realise that.

However if you consider the success of each of these organizations and compare it to the quality and ease-of-use of their webpages you will see a trend. Its no surprise that FES is as active as it is right now when it's got a webpage that just screams Star Wars and has a big banner promoting Republic Commando smack in the middle of its main news page. I didn't really like the location of the Join button for FES but othere than that I thought it's webpage was very good.

The Emperor's Hammer one (and FES but to a lesser degree) had a lot of different themes. It showed pictures of Darth Vader, TIE Fighters, Stormtroopers, AT-ATs, Imperial Officers: it made me think the club had a lot of diversity. The most popular games right now (for RECRUITMENT purposes) are Battlefront and Republic Commando so I felt that FES had the upper hand because its page was plastered primarily with Stormtroopers and AT-ATs (and that central Republic Commando poster is genius).

The Star Vipers one felt weak. It didn't tell me what I wanted to know straight away and (ignoring the fact it is out of date, pretend its still January or something) it looked very dated. Even when I did finally get to the about page I had to read through a load of boring waffle about the club rather than get told what I wanted to know. By comparison I liked the Rebel Squadrons page because as soon as I loaded it I was immediately told exactly what the club does.

Finally bringing us to our own page.

Now we're all going to have very different views but I'm sure that you can see that our page has some clear problems. Blade, among others, pointed out that we're currently recruiting lots of roleplayers but not enough gamers. I said in my analysis of the Dark Brotherhood page that it didn't tell me directly what games the club played and that the Join Page gave the impression it was almost entirely a roleplaying club (the Join Page doesn't mention games at all). Is it really any surprise then that we're recruiting tons of roleplayers and very few gamers? Likewise if you think about the popularity of games currently (the big recruiting games are Battlefront and Republic Commando) is a picture of a vampire on the splash page really the way to go? if I was looking for a new club based on Republic Commando/Battlefront I'd easily say I liked the FES page because it had those impressive pictures of AT-ATs and Stormtroopers.

The Emperor's Hammer page is pretty good because it's universal. It shows lots of different things. I don't really like the News Page because it swamps you with way too much information however the Join button is fairly easy to locate (and very large) and when you do eventually click it you get told a lot of useful, and easy to read, information.

-------------------------

I'm basically making the point that while we're a Dark Jedi club we've got to remember that recruiting is a commercial enterprise. We're competing with all these other clubs for members. We can sit on our high horses and say "we're a Dark Jedi club and AT-ATs would be inappropriate" but what's more important, really? I'd rather have the website a lot more diverse with pictures of all sorts of different Star Wars characters and scenes to try and attact a wider audience rather than a splash banner that makes me think that it's some kind of Gothic Cult or a porn site devoted to BDSM.

Hell. The Empire was a Dark Jedi group. Palpatine and Darth Vader were Dark Jedi. There's nothing in the whole Empire/Rebellion Era that would be inappropriate for us to have on display other than a pink fluffy rabbit.

I've always liked the layout of www.theforce.net because it changes to suit the times and because it incorporates everything. I've very rarely seen their layout stay the same for much more than a couple of months at a time because as new characters are introduced into Star Wars they update their layout. It demonstrates that they're keeping up with the times and trying to incorporate all kinds of interest groups. Now TheForce.net may not be a gaming club but the principles for attracting viewers is still the same.

While I'd like to think that a lot of this might well be solved with Rebirth, at the same time we have to ask ourselves what good that will do six months after the release of Star Wars Battlefront. We needed these things back when the game was released. Moaning about it now obviously isn't going to achieve anything but we do need to realise, like I said in my previous post, that the fundamental problems aren't so much the quality of the games Lucas Arts are giving us, its our inability to adapt and support them fully.

Websites are just a very good visual means of demonstrating this, because they're... well.... visual.

I quite well guarentee somebody is thinking "Does it matter? Isn't it better we get members who actually like the club for what it is rather than for flashy graphics?". All I can say to that one is to wake up and smell the roses. In the real world everything is about competition and most computer game fans aren't interested so much in the dynamics of the club they're joining as much as whether it "looks cool". People claim that gameplay is more important than graphics all the time but people still love their flashy visuals no matter what they say. FMV sells games. Likewise flashy webpages sells clubs. Its a sad truth I'm afraid.

If websites weren't so important we wouldn't be investing all this time and effort into Rebirth.

---------------------------

That said, don't miss the whole point of this post. It's not about websites (as all thats being sorted with Rebirth anyway), its about our attitude toward new games. The problem of the websites just highlights the underlying issues that we need to change our attitudes to new games and be ready to support them for a long time, and put a lot of effort into them, before we can expect to get anything out of them.

If Jedi Knight were released today it wouldn't get us 1000 recruits tomorrow. It would take many months to build up activity and make the most out of the game by promoting ourselves as one of the big names in the Jedi Knight community.

Likewise, the same is true about Republic Commando and Battlefront. We need to stick with them for a lot longer than just a matter of weeks if we actually want to get anything out of them. We've stuck with Jedi Outcast and the X-Wing Series at times when it looked like those games were going to disappear completely- yet they're still with us. We need to be sure to take that attitude to the new games, else the new games will disappear even quicker than the old.

Its true what they say: you only get out what you put in. New games don't do the work for us. If we want to make the most of the new games we're being given we need to put the effort into them first. And that's as true for Republic Commando as it would be for Half Life 2 or Unreal Tournament if we were to fully support those. No game, Star Wars or non-Star Wars, is able to "save the club" without us being prepared to put the effort in first.

And yes I write too much, but I was bored, so sue me. If you don't want to read everything the previous page basically:


Everyone needs to stop expecting miracles and thinking that new games will recruit millions of new members overnight. If we want to get something out of new games like Battlefront and Republic Commando we (all of us as a club) need to realise that we've got to support these games for many months before expecting to really get anything in return. You only get out what you put in. Battlefront only failed because we gave up too soon and the club wasn't prepared to put the effort in in the long run. We've all got to work together and make sure not to repeat the same mistake in the future.

A short summary, with my thoughts; please, feel free to correct me where I err, Goat.

"We don't do enough to recruit, nor does our site truly say what I think it should say, to express that we are just as much a gaming Club, and support the new games."

I agree on that. In my own opinion, too much attention has been given to the Rebirth site. The attitude has seemed "this site doesn't matter, since we won't be using it anymore. We won't waste time making it better, we're just going to work on Rebirth." Which hasn't gone anywhere that we've seen, yet. I honestly would like to see some work done on what we have, simply because, we still have to use it. I can understand not wanting to "slow down the progress on Rebirth," but I don't suppose it could get any slower.

As far as recruiting fromt Battlefront on the server, here's the thing. You really need to pick out "who should've done that," and spell it out clearly. I used to get on the server a lot, and play when there were mobs of people. Why? Because it was fun. Several times, I played with Yacks, and Shadow, and Dalthid, and several others, and when new people got on, we did talk to them about it. You want to know who was using the server? People in OTHER clubs. Very rarely was it new people who hadn't been introduced to some gaming community or another. And when I mentioned the DB, the response I usually got was "Nah, I'm in a club. They just said they play here a lot because your server fills up."

Now, that wasn't the whole of the server load. Other people did come on, who had no group yet, but it was few and far between. It's also a bit harder to advertise on the BF server, since it doesn't have the MOTD features, and a few others, that other games have. The best method of advertising ourselves was naming the server "DarkJediBrotherhood.com" (the only method most consistant, actually).

The best resource we have to recruit IS the membership. "Not their jobs." Sorry, but I think it's everybody's job to try and recruit. The best opportunity we have to bring people in, isn't the Dark Council going out, or the Summits, or just eladership in general. It's the members going and gaming, leadership too, and getting to know the people, and saying "You should check us out." What do you think the rest of the gaming Clans do? "Such-and-such Clan recruiting server!" I've seen several JO and JA servers named that. And they have people on them regularly, to be there to answer questions. In those games, you can sit out and spectate; no real spectating feature in Battlefront.

So while I see your point, it's not exactly as easy to define what we should've done with Battlefront, and now RC, as opposed to JO and JA.

The Sith are dying because the Krath rule... simple.

Sephiroth, that's just so not true. And for that, I'm going to have to have you punished. For your punishment, you will sit and listen to Goat recite the history of the Sith. In full detail. With visual aides.

Come on man NO-ONE should have that punishment!

pwned

*grabs the hand puppets*

And in the beginning....

keep on going! >:)

ooo! Hand puppets! (Simple things amuse me...)

Dying Sith, We are dying, RECRUIT MORE!
We're dying? I thought we were long dead... Nope. Just me :'(
(feels like group looser )

Well, you could un-loser yourself, and get back to doing things again.

Well, you could un-loser yourself, and get back to doing things again.



...or I could make people feel a sense of victory in not becomming a more inactive bum or slob
That's right people. I'm doing this for YOU!!

I like to write, but I'd rather be Sith than anything else.

I knew that from the moment I saw my first SW flick. Vader was so powerful, and scary at the same time. And he had class, man.

The Sith aren't dead, we just need to recruit more.

We're not?...

* thinks hard for two hours then runs onto the middle of the road and yells out *

I'm ALIVE everybody! I'm ALIVE!!!

* narrowly misses being hit by a car and gets shouted at by a driver *

Get off the road ya dickhead!

*blinks*

Konar....?

We thought you'd died... nobody has heard from you in months, you just kinda... disappeared, leaving J'Rai confused, heh.

*blinks*

Konar....?

We thought you'd died... nobody has heard from you in months, you just kinda... disappeared, leaving J'Rai confused, heh.



I'd never leave you all behind... I luv you all

As for disappearing... I thought I've always had a reputation for that. When I was CMDR Ksian Qui-Soran I lost my position as CMDR by disappearing, and like the good 'ol times it's déjà vu!

Proves how unreliable some Sadow slobs can be... *sniff* :blink:

as for dying... I've haven't been intoxicated enough to achieve that yet

*looks up at Bob* - How do you do it, man? You're my hero

The Sith are dying. It's sad but true. We must recruit more people.

Oh well, give me your comments, maybe after the Sith outlook is changed by the SHW maybe more people will join.


Im a noob here and ive joined the Sith, so im glad im making a contribution

I agree with Bloodfyre about it being everyone's job to recruit new members. I don't know about the BF servers, since i don't have the computer version. But i have been playing Allegiance on the public servers for a while now, and most of the people that play there are not members of a club. I spoke a little bit about the DJB to 3 of them during a game and all of them couldn't wait to join. Now we have 3 new members and 2 of them are Sith. There are plenty of gamers out there that would love to join us, all they need is to find out about us.

We are one of the strongest and largest gaming clubs available, and we can only grow from here. Only takes 2-3 minutes of telling someone about us and they will lineup to join...

Im a noob here and ive joined the Sith, so im glad im making a contribution



Welcome to the club, Kraz
and nice to have you on board

Welcome to the darkness

Yes...Welcome to the Dark Side >:)

Welcome, a bit belated. And we are not dying- my Sith battleteam is more powerful than ever before right now. I love it! They rock.

i was sith, but joined krath, i think ill come back to sith, not that it matters in the db, but in my stories i guess it does...

Damn you Tyrus : P .Yeah it kinda sucks whenever people join up and pick Sith juet b/c thats the only one they have heard about.

Im sith, and im cooler than BF! HA!

The Sith shall live on forever! Sieg heil!!

I am a new recuit to the Sith. I am Estuans Interius. I have also been called the dark eyed dragon by others. May the darkness guide us to victory.

Welcome!

GO KRATH!

/me runs away from the rocks being thrown at him

throws rocks- and a coke

Shall I hunt him down? or will we be merciful to him?

Nah, Uzbad's alright. Nice enthusiasm though. you will be a good Sith.

Very well then. I thank you for your praise.

i've managed to recruit 2 members so far. and already one of them has started recruiting and one of his recruits is going crazy on msn promoting the brotherhood. it's a snowball effect...

The few people i recruited are losers, they gave up right after joining. Death to them all!!! :@

Bah! Infidells!!!!
They know nothing!!!
(i hope i can get this fiction submitted before monday, i dont wanna be rogue "bloody lighties" 8o( ive grown a loyalty of sorts these last few months)
We got a cupple o places in Sapphire Squadron right now. if you think your up to the standard (true sith) then feel free to pm or e-mail Revenant, our Commander, and we shall let yall know if your in. the more new blood the better.!!! Bwa hahahahahaahaaaa!!
'scuse me...What we need is a good slaughter, nothing better to make you feel sith. "my chains are broken"

All my recruits did was get me into trouble.

Hey, ive joined again as i couldnt find my username, im now a member of the Sith!

Welcome back! i guess.

AHHHH!!!!!! I'm a Sith. I gotta tell ya... it feels great...

Sith is the way to be. Welcome Jorux.
Your loyalty is appreciated Sin - you better be, as you are my student. *grins*

Yes... the Sith are the greatest. That is true.


However.... the Obelisk are greatester!


Muahahahahahahah. B)

What Nitemare means to say is this:

"Yes, the Sith are the greatest. However, the Sith are infinitely cooler than I can ever hope to be, so I should go take a flying leap out of an airlock. If you'll all excuse me please. Have a nice day."

lol.

You could say he's got guts... but I suppose, like firewood, the best value for money comes when you leave the thing burning till its black, rather than saving the unused portion for later.

I don't understand it when non Sith claim their order is the greatest. When did the Krath or the Obelisk ever create an empire spanning the entire galaxy? Wasn't that way back in... Oh, wait it was never, wasn't it...?

haha. plus, ive never heard of a krath or obelisk holocron. dya recon they have any? and if so are they round or something? (so they keep rolling away and getting lost under furniature.) (jk)

I don't understand it when non Sith claim their order is the greatest.  When did the Krath or the Obelisk ever create an empire spanning the entire galaxy?  Wasn't that way back in...  Oh, wait it was never, wasn't it...?



Revenant, whilst I'm in full support of the Sith being the greatest, the DB Sith never created an empire spanning the entire galaxy. You are thinking of Uncle George's Sith. We as a brotherhood are a little bit different. We had no Darth Vader, nor a deathstar.

- In the Lucas world the Krath exist in the comics and stories, the Sith (in practically everything), and the Obelisk don't exist at all. But as a brotherhood our ways of life follow a much similar route. You could say we have Flight CMDR's and a Dark Lord of the Sith - which obviously the other two orders lack. I'd assume we also have the majority of members, and as there is strength in numbers I guess that again puts us a step above the rest.

Revenant, whilst I'm in full support of the Sith being the greatest, the DB Sith never created an empire spanning the entire galaxy. You are thinking of Uncle George's Sith. We as a brotherhood are a little bit different. We had no Darth Vader, nor a deathstar.

- In the Lucas world the Krath exist in the comics and stories, the Sith (in practically everything), and the Obelisk don't exist at all. But as a brotherhood our ways of life follow a much similar route. You could say we have Flight CMDR's and a Dark Lord of the Sith - which obviously the other two orders lack. I'd assume we also have the majority of members, and as there is strength in numbers I guess that again puts us a step above the rest. 




Well... all of our GMs are wereDeathStars. That's close enough.

Oh, and technically... about the Sith Empire... yeah... that's nothing to do with the DB. And the Krath from Uncle George's history were a sect of the Sith. A sect that later broke off and tried to make an Empire of itself. And yeah.. Obelisk didn't exist in there... so... that makes us the best.

Now if you'll excuse me, I still haven't gone through that airlock. I don't want to disappoint Bloodfyre. I <3 him.

This is the way I want it to be.This is the way of the Sith....

Nice Avatar, Shamash. Welcome aboard.

Hey Shamash

Hello Rage,we met already on the chat.

Btw. my avatar is Naga Sadow in the comic.

wow, this topic is still around...

Sith is the only way to go, to think otherwise is foolish -_-

Simple and to the point. I like it.

Yeah..sure

I think the sith aren't dying anymore, but more people are still needed to join.I myself think that there should be more sith but a whole hell of a lot more Obelisk in the brotherhood because they are soldier like units and as such the sith need an army of them to do their beding for them.I mean who is stronger Sith or Obelisk?

Sith are defintely stronger but you're right, Obelisk are disposable...

I used to be a sith, then to obelisk, then back to Sith
So i used to be a obbie, so grrr!

I mean who is stronger Sith or Obelisk?



I find it funny you should say this, because it's obvious that the Obelisk are the ones that HAVE to be stronger for the Sith's plans to go through. If the Obbies weren't stronger, we wouldn't be able to get the job you Sith want done.

We're stronger, of course. We're just not that smart. :ermm: I mean, we follow the Sith around, don't we?

Then again... the strongest Clan in the Brotherhood for the past couple of years has been led by an Obelisk, and will continue to be the strongest under another Obelisk. Therefore, it's obvious that the Obbies are superior to the Sith in the way that matters:

Victories. Strenth. Durability. We just hold much much more.

This message has been brought to you by the Local 69 Obbie Office: Clan Taldryan. Pwnd.

I find Nitemare's comments extremely funny, because --
1) It implies no Sith ever take the battlefield. Yeah. Right. Old stereotype, and quite frankly, it's also a stupid stereotype.
2) Your sentiments about Taldryan being led by an Obelisk would imply that only Obelisk make contributions to Taldryan's victories, which is humorous. Last I heard, Kraval was one of the most insane gamers in the ORoS, and Nitemare, he's Sith. And because I know how Taldryan works, the victory they earned was because each Order was doing their part in the form of their various personnel.
3) To decide which Order was actually "strongest," you'd have to pit each Order against each other. Which would mean Clan lines would have to be blurred in order for everyone to team against the Orders not their own, and it would have to truly be an "Order War." And oddly enough, this is something I've pondered many times, and may try to work with Korras and Telona to incite.

So, until then, the Sith Order will continue to be the strongest. Why? Well, because I say so for one, and I'm much cooler than pretty much anyone. And two, all but one Grand Master has come from the Sith Order. So hah.

And just in closing, anyone who actually listens to Nitemare is as big a nerd as he is.

<3

LOL, nice. An order war would be awesome! Not that the Sith need a war to "prove" we are strongest, it should be obvious to anyone with a brain...

And then I think to myself,what a wonderful world...uuu yeah...

For those who don't know, I've known Nitemare through the DB for a while, and I consistantly give him crap. It's nothing overly serious. But he is an overly enthusiastic Obelisk, and I have to shoot him down once in a while. I wouldn't be very mean, and evil, and Sith if I didn't.

We have this not-really-love/hate relationship. :mellow:

Let's just say that the Obelisk and Krath are kind of like the Sith's slaves. The Sith think of a plan, and use the Krath and Obelisk to get thruogh it. Only for very special missions do the sith actually go fight.

I whole-heartedly disagree with that statement, Aabsdu. I see the Sith as the warlords and dark princes of the Brotherhood, yes, but I don't see them as just the wealth and nobility who do nothing unless they absolutely have to. I've always viewed the three Orders as somewhat symbiotic in nature. To me, it's sort of like the following.

Sith are the warlords, the ones with much of the higher authority. In some cases, they are the generals and princes who command from the hilltop, and oversee the battle, but not always. Some of the Order takes the calling of leading warriors onto the battlefield, and making their own names, writing their deeds with the blood of their foes.

Obelisk are the typical warrior caste, practicing martial combat for the sake of itself, reveling in the glory of the fight. They go where the Brotherhood calls, because that is their destiny, to fight, to conquer, and in some cases, to die in the name of the Brotherhood.

The Krath are an Order of secrecy, manipulation and stealth. They are a weapon, but they are a subtle, silent one. Not quite at the command of the Sith, they have their own goals, but realize that the goals of the Brotherhood will often advance their own plans. many times, they are the power behind the throne, or the power that secures the throne.

None of the three Orders trusts each other implicitly, but the smartest people of each Order recognize the benefits of each. The Sith seem destined to rule, but that does not prevent Obelisk and Krath from amassing power and armies, and becoming warlords. The Obelisk are the fanatical warriors, but there are Sith and Krath who follow the call of the blade. Krath are silent, and in some ways, bent on mysticism; yet, there are Sith Sorcerers, Sith Assassins, and various Obelisk who find more use for secrecy; almost like the call of "Hollywood Ninja," being the secretive, mystical killers.

There's all sorts of stereotypes and ideals to abide by. it's really just a matter of defining what kind of Krath, Obelisk, or Sith you are, and then running with it.

Well here is a question then if the Obelisk are stronger then why do they follow the Sith.Answer the Sith are stronger and the Obelisk are afraid of the Sith.

They follow because, as Bloodfyre said, they see the benefits of working with each Order to further the entire Brotherhood. Not all Obelisk follow Sith and not all Sith lead.

Well put, BF. No one order is stronger. We need each other to smash the hated Jedi and rule the Universe, muah ha ha.

Eh but the Sith are better at ruling over the Universe than the Krath or Obelisk. You really can't object to me on that one b/c The Sith are the only ones to do it.

Yes I can, because at this point, no one has actually "ruled over" the universe as a whole. Beyond that, the Krath were rulers over the Empress Teta system in the form of Satal and Aleema Keto back when the Krath were founded in the comics. You can't add in the Obelisk, because they were "DB-created" and not in the source material. I see the Sith as the Order of warlords and dark princes, but that doesn't mean that's the case in every single instance.

But if you consider that the Krath were a ripoff of Sith teachings from Freedon Nadd, you have to admit we still OWN you purple robes =P

Khan has a point.Snice it was the sith who were the first,and that the Krath and Obelisk were trained like they sith but unlike the sith they focused on other things.They were thought using sith teachings in the begining so would that not mean that they use sith training now?

I may, and possibly I am, mistaking but I've always sow the Obelisk and the Krath as the two parts of the Siths. The Krath more devoted to the spiritual and esoterical aspect of the Force while the Obelisk more concerned about the enanchments the Force could give to their fighting skills. The Siths on the other hand have never, say, split this two options being a whole perfect tool of the Dark Side, or rather perfectly using the Dark Side as a tool.

Krath are an offshoot of the Sith teachings... Obelisk was made up by the DB.

Yeah Shadow I know where the Obbie came from, I'm refering from a DB stand point. Pure SWish, to me the Krath were a bunch of dumbasses lacking the skills and willpower to be REAL Siths =P

even if the krath are a ripoff of the teachings of freedon nadd, i was under the impression that nadd was never a true sith, but a dark jedi who was never truly a member of any dark order...

Nadd is questionable. He was trained by the Jedi, sought out Sith teachings and woke Naga Sadow up, learned form him, then the story goes vague. He either left Naga Sadow, or killed him, and then conquered Onderon. He wasn't quite the paragon of Sith teachings, but he was a Sith, for the most part.

What do you mean they never ruled over the Galaxy as a whole does the Phrase "The Senate will now be known as the first GALACTIC EMPIRE" Said by Darth Sidious <<

Yes I can, because at this point, no one has actually "ruled over" the universe as a whole.  Beyond that, the Krath were rulers over the Empress Teta system in the form of Satal and Aleema Keto back when the Krath were founded in the comics.  You can't add in the Obelisk, because they were "DB-created" and not in the source material.  I see the Sith as the Order of warlords and dark princes, but that doesn't mean that's the case in every single instance.



I think the point was made that the Sith did rule the universe (Palps). We can also argue that the Sith had ruled the universe at a prior time as well, I believe Mace Windu makes that statement to Palpatine "The Sith Oppression will never rule the galaxy again"....he said again. Which would lead me to believe that the Sith Oppression had ruled the galaxy at least 1 time prior.

He ruled the galaxy, not the universe.

"Palps ruled over the universe/galaxy." Well, what about Hutt space? What about the Unknown Regions? What about Wildspace? Palpatine didn't rule over the galaxy/universe, he just ruled over a huge portion of the KNOWN galaxy. That's where I was going.

Sarin makes a good point though. Not only does Windu say something to the effect of the Sith having ruled the galaxy before, Palpatine says much the same thing after, in the same scene, where he has cloaked himself, and is still talking to Anakin. He mentions something about the Sith ruling the galaxy once more.

Anyhoo, yada yada, blah.

"Palps ruled over the universe/galaxy."  Well, what about Hutt space?  What about the Unknown Regions?  What about Wildspace?  Palpatine didn't rule over the galaxy/universe, he just ruled over a huge portion of the KNOWN galaxy.




He also didn't rule over the Corporate Sector, or the Hapan Cluster...

The Hutt space was left mostly untouched for practical reasons. Sidious knew better the whole networks of links, pawns and whatnot in the hand of the Hutts may have resulted useful to his ends and one point in time and an the extermination/enslavement of the Hutts whould have only damaged the system and it whould have took him decades to rebuild. So he simply let it be run by Hutts with their full knowledge that once he ask, they give, no question asked. Only because there weren't the Imperial flag over that portion of space doesn't mean it wasn't controlled by Sidious. The Hutt knew better not to mess with the imperial navy and army, after all they were criminal leaders, not generals and they knew it.

Pffffffbbbbbbbbbbbbbt. That is all I have to say about that.

http://www.wizards.com/starwars/darkside/quiz1.asp
an interesting link that Macron told us about.
I was a Dark Side Marauder BTW >:)

I know I'm an Obbie instead of a Sith, but still...

Sith Acolyte
Ah, you are truly perceptive, my child. You are worthy enough to study the mysteries of the dark side as a Sith acolyte -- the most fearsome wielders of the Force since the galaxy was formed. With my instruction, you will locate lost artifacts and learn to use them, becoming more powerful than you ever dreamed. You could have the galaxy at your feet. Even the Jedi will dance like puppets for you.

oddly enough, I got Sith Warrior.Go figure!

I got Dark Side Marauder. Not surprised though...

I got Dark side Witch

Sith Acolyte, of course.

Dark Side Devotee
I can see that the dark side seethes within you, and your will is quite strong. For one such as you, the path of the Sith is not one you should take. But, as a dark side devotee, you will become more powerful in the dark side than you can even imagine. You will rule the weak and the frightened with a cruel hand, and carve your dreaded name across entire planets.

I PWN!!!! >:)

Well taking into hand EVERYONE'S comments.Then it can be said that no one can rule the Universe but they can own Galaxies.Which I give you would be hard to do because they are so big,that it would litterally take generations in light speed to even get to the nearest star.So really no one man can rule an empire because who knows by the time the ship that was sent to take control of a planet returns a new empire might be already established,or there is no empire or anything for that matter.

Sith Warrior
Your savage and aggressive nature does you credit, my apprentice. And it will serve you well when you learn the ancient battle arts necessary to become a Sith warrior. There are weapons, powerful weapons, that I will teach you to use - not the least of which is your own formidable body. Your lessons will be harsh and painful. But you will use that pain. It will make you invincible. Not even the most accomplished Jedi Knight will be able to withstand your onslaught.

---------------------------
btw, we are definately NOT dying!

Sith Acolyte
Ah, you are truly perceptive, my child. You are worthy enough to study the mysteries of the dark side as a Sith acolyte -- the most fearsome wielders of the Force since the galaxy was formed. With my instruction, you will locate lost artifacts and learn to use them, becoming more powerful than you ever dreamed. You could have the galaxy at your feet. Even the Jedi will dance like puppets for you.

I got....

Dark Side Marauder

Your bloodlust serves you well. The dark side will lend strength to your body, and fill your mind with thoughts of savage destruction. You are destined to become a dark side marauder -- a living engine of war. Wherever you go, none will be able to stand against you. Even the vaunted Sith will fear your mighty weapons.

still i can achieve more...

Ah I'm not suprised, I'm a Sith Lord, even by the stands of my very own character >:)

Sith Lord
Magnificent! Of all those who have come to me, you are the most worthy. Under my tutelage, you may become a Sith lord - even the one true Dark Lord of the Sith. Only you recognize that morality is for fools and weaklings. You were born to bend the galaxy to your will. You may even restore the Sith Empire to its rightful glory. As you learn from the dark side and become its master, be mindful of one thing: If you fail, the dark side will devour you alive.

hmm, just did the test and I guess my calling is Sith Lord.

In other rpg tests i've taken i always seem to be best suited as a Lawful Evil.

Naturally I am the Master not a pawn.

The Sith Lord is my title.

Personally I don't about all the other titles I just want to be the best assassin in the sith order.So I have a question is there uch a title?Cause if there isn't I hope they make one.

its like the ancient sith, we're dying out.....

Yet the Sith always came back, and with a bang too. Hopefully the same will happen here.

Maybe....

I tryed my best and all I was able to get was my brother I think my cousin by marrige is in the clue too, but I am not really sure.

not many people will join but with the sith we have now we might stay longer than any other sith rain.