Mara Jade's Fate Discussion

OK, I was doing some reading and I saw that Mara dies by Jacen Solo's own hand. That absolutly sucked! I mean, I know that they had to make some sort of way to make Jacen become the new Lord of the Sith, but man, it sucked that Mara lost on that round of Russian Roulette.

Thoughts on the why or anything??

Another thing to add to "reasons why the continuing adventures books suck"

I've always thought they were rather good. I think it is rather starnge that M. Jade couldn't heal her self from the poison, and yet was able to keep going when she was ill in the Vong war

I know... Maybe it was the shock of realization that it was Jacen or something? To me, it just seemed like it was rushed and that they killed off a perfectly kick-ass character for nothing.

I changed title of topic because it gave out way too much info. Even though you said "major spoilers" the title alone revealed a major spoiler.

Frankly I just don't care, but others might. Be careful about that stuff.

the topic still pretty much reveals what happens you know

Not as much as flat out saying "Death of Mara Jade" -- Her "Fate" can mean anything. She could have turned back to the Dark Side. Arguing the name of the topic is not the point of this thread, so I'll try to get back on track by saying this:

I don't know why they feel they need to kill off such major characters so often in the Star Wars universe. Qui Gon, Obi-Wan, Yoda, Anakin (Skywalker and Solo, right?), Palpatine, Chewbacca and now Mara Jade.

Usually it's to push the hero into his next task, but some of these seem pointless, like Yoda and Chewbacca. In Yoda's case, it's not like he was going to come out of hiding to help Luke defeat the Empire, so why couldn't he just live on Dagobah? Oh no - make sure Luke has absolutely no one to lean on. Chewbacca's case was completely useless. Didn't he sacrifice himself to save the Solo kids? Look where that got them...

I think Chewie was "shock value" marketing, and I imagine Mara Jade is too.

I've never read any books with Mara Jade in them (they're on my To Read List) so I personally don't feel that connected to her, and don't really care about her dieing. Either way, Jacen had to kill someone big. As with not healing herself, I agree that the shock of her own son killing her was just too much to handle. She'd rather die then live knowing what her son became

As with killing major characters, whenever you have a big story with good guys and bad guys, good guys are going to die. That's just how it works. I can't wait for Luke for die

Kaine's one hundred percent right. It's "shock value marketing."

It's a pitiful substitute for good stories about things that happened before she...well...you know.

Indeed... As for the death of Chewbacca, that was completely pointless. I remember reading it and throwing the book across the room because I got angry.

Oh, Kaine, sorry about the topic title. Thanks for changing it so I didn't ruin anyone's book read with that in it.

I've never read any books with Mara Jade in them



Really? Not even the series that essentially kick-started the Expanded Universe craze... Heir To The Empire/Dark Force Rising/The Last Command (aka Zahn Trilogy)?

I'm not 'attached' to her but it seems like they made 10 years of build-up, for her to redeem herself and become a pillar of the New Jedi Order community only to be cast aside as a milestone in someone else's career of evil. Qui-Gon's & Obi-Wan's death had a meaning. This Mara Jade incident seems as significant as Vader's slaughter of the Trade Federation.

Having not read the book, I could be completely wrong. There could be some huge lightsaber duel with a whole lot of things said throughout, but I'm picturing more of a cheap cop-out kind of murder, because that seems to be the route these books usually take (Thrawn).

As with killing major characters, whenever  you have a big story with good guys and bad guys, good guys are going to die. That's just how it works. I can't wait for Luke for die



I don't think Luke will be dying in Lucas' lifetime. I can't see him approving such a thing... then again I said the same thing about Chewbacca. Han or Lando perhaps, but I'm even skeptical on that. I think he'd keep his core team alive (Luke, Leia, Han). Plus it seems like the offspring of Leia are about as useful in restoring the Jedi Order as Anakin Skywalker was in holding back his emotions. There's no one for Luke to "leave in charge" so to speak, and I don't think they'd have the galaxy fall into complete darkness yet.

From what I've read in passing about some of the things the Jedi have faced it seems they just need to lay off, write one of those "everything works out great in the end with very little universal negative impact" type of stories (like Courtship) or a big story arc with that result before they consider killing off anyone important again.

Oh, Kaine, sorry about the topic title. Thanks for changing it so I didn't ruin anyone's book read with that in it.



No big deal. I don't think it was up long anyhow.

I do agree that it is part shock-value, a lot of famous character deaths are shock-value, but still good guys have to die now and then. As for killing Luke, no matter when I happens, I can't wait for it to happen

And as for not reading books with her in it, I own them, but haven't read them yet. I try to read the books in order

While I agree that the death of Chewie was useless in the end, at the time, the writers of the NJO series had Anakin Solo in the place where Jacen was. If you read the NJO, you understand what I mean. Then, George Lucas said NO to Jacen's death, so they had to switch it around AFTER they had already finished Vector Prime.

As for Mara Jade's death, look at the context of it, if any of you have even read the book Sacrifice. It's been building up since book one, Betrayal (Sacrifice is book 5) that Jacen was going to have to sacrifice something due to the Sith prophecy he discovered. At first, everyone thought he was going to kill Tenel Ka, who he loves, or his daughter by Tenel Ka, Allana.

Instead, Exile (book 4) and Sacrifice led us down the path that maybe the Sacrifice wasn't some PERSON, but something intangible. By killing Mara Jade, he lost the adoration of his apprentice, Ben Skywalker, which is something he valued very highly.

So now we have:

-Jacen as truly a Sith, even going so far as to adopt his name.

-We have Luke, who is reeling from the fact that he killed Lumiya, who although she didn't kill Mara had a lot to do with her death.

-We have Ben Skywalker, who has an inkling that it was Jacen who did it.

-We now have the healed relationship between Luke and Ben. It's only sad to see that the two of them reconciled due to the death of a loved one.

-We have the Jedi Order as a whole going "WTF, mate?"

-And now Jacen is in control of the Galactic Alliance and is hunting down his family members.

Personally, I think it was an important death, and the idea was executed very well. Yes, I understand some aspects of the SW EU can be pretty ridiculous, but as a whole, I still like it a lot. It still has plenty to offer if you actually follow the storyline and don't just read tidbits off a spoiler site.

I'll say out front that I haven't read any of the newer books. Quite frankly, the quality started to go downhill shortly after Zahn's originally trilogy, and I became very selective. That, and with school and other projects, my reading time was cut.

So, I won't try to offer any literary critique of the works, or the importance of someone's death, or whatever else happens. That being said, they didn't disguise the fact that Mara was going to die very well. The book was called Sacrifice, and it featured a young Mara Jade on the cover. I took a guess and turned out to be right.

Still, I am disappointed that she died. I always liked the character, though, in my opinion, no one wrote her as well as Zahn did (as for his choice to kill of Thrawn the way he did, well, that's another debate). This opinion makes sense given that Zahn created the character and he knew what she was really about.

I'll say this: being a Skywalker, or being tied to them in some meaningful manner, does not seem to bode well. If they don't die trying to save the galaxy, they're going to die after taking a whole lot of people with them.

Mara Jade was a continuation of the trend, and it gives plenty of shock value, as has already been noted.

It'll be the death of the entire series if Luke is killed off IMO.

Ahh. They won't kill Luke. At least I hope they don't. I mean, according to the Star Wars: Legacy comic books, Luke did EVENTUALLY die. Which, if they keep carrying on these Expanded Universe novels, he would. But in my mind, Luke lives to a ripe old age and dies just like his last master - of old age. I like that, and I'll stick to it. And if they choose to kill him off before then.......well, then R.A. Salvatore will feel better about not being the target of all those death threats anymore.

*tries to act innocent of any death threats* What, I wouldn't do that! No, never! Not I!

I've always thought they were rather good. I think it is rather starnge that M. Jade couldn't heal her self from the poison, and yet was able to keep going when she was ill in the Vong war


Well for all intents and purposes she did kick Jacen's behind. The only reason he managed to kill her was because he resorted to a typical backhanded Sith trick, i.e. stab her with some cheap poison dart.

As far as the "lightsaber duel" went though, Mara effectively won the fight. Jacen cheated, at least as far as you look at it as a "clean fight", as he had to resort to a cheap trick. Quite appropriate though, really, for a Sith.

Poison affecting Jedi isn't that uncommon really, two examples off the top of my head: when Satal Keto poisoned Ulic Qel-Droma (or was that the other way around?) or when Githany poisoned Darth Bane. Unlike the Dark Brotherhood world of crazy superpowers though, usually Jedi aren't that good at magicing away poison, and for all we know Jacen used some special alchemical Sith poison Lumiya had provided him. Plus Mara was probably tired out from the fight beforehand, which wouldn't have helped.

As for the talk of shock value... to be honest, for anyone who has been following the books throughout, it wasn't really that much of a big shock. Ben had a premonition of a future with his father but without his mother in one of the NJO books years ago, Luke had a vision of Mara butchered and covered in blood in the Dark Nest books a couple of years ago, and he had another vision of the "Dark Man" (read: Jacen) bringing him great personal pain back in the first LOTF book.

All signs have been pointing to Mara biting the bullet for quite a long time really. It was less a case of "if", more "when". And, in the case of Sacrifice, "is this going to be it?".

Chewie, on the other hand, was a pointless death purely for shock value. Nobody knew it was coming, it served little purpose toward the story itself, it was simply a case of "let's kill off a movie character!". I don't really see Mara's death as being the same. If anything, the reason it's Mara who has died is because of how badly Chewie's death was recieved, so they were too scared to try anything with Han, Leia or Luke.

Credit to them though, the authors do have a divided fan base to deal with. There's a lot of people, like the ones who were outraged at Chewie's death, who hate any major character ever getting killed. Then there are also others who say it's unrealistic that Luke is superman and would rather the torch be passed to the "next generation".

Mara's death upset me a little but, then, I see that as the point. I don't want them to kill Luke off purely to kill Luke off - which had he been the one to die this time is all I'd have seen that as ("It's the 30th anniversary of ANH! Let's do something big! Let's kill Luke off!"). Equally, I never really care much when random characters die (did anybody really care when Lomi Plo or Shimraa were killed? Or even Lumiya, to a degree?.) so I can see why there also needs to be more than just random stormtroopers getting killed.

Obi-Wan for example, his death was highly important to Luke's character development. Nobody really questions the fact he was killed off an hour into his first film. So, I never believe in an outright ban against killing main characters, just that the death needs to be justified.

With Jacen... I initially thought it was just going to be a pointless "let's kill someone for no reason!" death as that's what the first four books were building up to - heck, even Jacen said something along the lines of "what does killing someone really achieve?". They managed to at least justify it in that Mara found out the truth and he needed to silence her.

It was still somewhat artificial else they wouldn't have been going on and on about it for the last four books, but ultimately it did serve a point: Jacen killed "himself" so to speak by wrecking any chance he had of rethinking what he was doing, Ben lost the one person he listened to, so could easily enough be brainwashed by Jacen again now, Luke lost his wife and has basically gone off on a rampage, etc.

The only part of the book I didn't like was the way Jacen seemed to level up and magically obtain new powers as soon as he said "My name is Darth Caedus!". That just seemed too artificial. I view declaring oneself a Sith Lord as recognition of the power one has already achieved. The idea that the moment you go "I am the Lord of the Sith!" some kind of mythological "God of the Dark Side" suddenly bestows you with new Force powers is kind of dumb. Though, I'm willing to let that one fly and just put it down to poor wording on Karen Traviss's part.

/me bows to Xanos's superior EU logic.


Couldn't have said it better. Though I must say, I wasn't nearly as bothered at Chewie's death as everyone else was. Mainly because of the way he died. If he died of follicle cancer, then yeah, I'd be irritated. But how can you complain about having a friggin MOON fall on you? That isn't just "death". That's cold, hard, inescapable DEATH! Like "POW!!!" "Holy crap!!!" "Now that dude is DEAD! D-E-A-DEAD!!!



oh, and for those of you who don't know, R.A. Salvotre wasn't the one who decided Chewbacca should die. Twas Lucasfilm/arts/books/whatever-handles-Star Wars-novels that told him to kill em off.

*Dies laughing at Demious's description of Chewie's death*

Very valid point Demious! Well, I guess I should have seen it coming, but I was kinda hoping it wouldn't be Mara.. Oh well, someone had to get "whacked".

In the end, after reading everyone's PoV, I can see now why it had to be Mara. (Even if I liked her character)

Personally, I' never liked Mara and I don't mind her getting killed. Despite the fact that, strategically, she was a good partner for Luke, she just didn't seem right for him. And I don't think that she was such a sacrifice for Jacen. He basically had to kill her, which removes choice from the matter. Sacrifice generally means giving up something (or someone) you care about or love as a matter of free will. It was more of an execution than a sacrifice.

Personally, I' never liked Mara and I don't mind her getting killed.  Despite the fact that, strategically, she was a good partner for Luke, she just didn't seem right for him.  And I don't think that she was such a sacrifice for Jacen.  He basically had to kill her, which removes choice from the matter.  Sacrifice generally means giving up something (or someone) you care about or love as a matter of free will.  It was more of an execution than a sacrifice.



Mara Jade was not the sacrifice. Jacen's relationship with Ben Skywalker was.

And the death of Mara was a way to sever that tie

/me sniffs and dabs eyes with hanky


It's always so sad when a Jedi stops idolizing a cruel, ruthless Sith Lord.

I haven't read it, but I say props to long-winded Goat's response!

From the earlier books, Ben was supposed to be Jacen's apprentice. Why would he sacrifice that? And Lumiya was leading Jacen to believe that the sacrifice had to be someone he loved. And ruining his relationship with Ben still doesn't meet the meaning of sacrifice. The series is not going to end with Jacen being a Sith Lord and the Jedi being destroyed. Luke will win in the end, and since he lost his wife the writers are going to make sure Ben doesn't travel down Jacen's path. That's the reason that relationship was severed, not because it makes any sense in Lumiya's plans. I had thought that her real goal was to have Ben become the Sith Lord, and eventually kill Jacen, like Sidious killed Plagueis.

I didn't read Goat's post, and I don't want to, but I'll just say: I agree completely with Xanos!

Aside from that, I sure hope that don't let Luke die of old age. I mean, what could be a crappier death then dieing of old age? How un-awesomepwntastic

True, and honestly, Luke deserves a good death, even if he was a big weenie during the Rebellion. But the question is how to give him a death that is worthy of his status as the quintessential Star Wars character? Cause honestly - It's hard to top having a moon fall on you. How can you beat that?
/me smacks own forehead in revelation

DUH! Have a DEATHSTAR fall on him! It's, like, the ULTIMATE REVENGE!!!

I meant I haven't read the book, Aabs

I read Goat's post...it's pwntastic!

And I agree on the Luke bit

I doubt that they'll get rid of Luke for a long, long time. But he has to die in battle. There has hardly ever been enough peace in the galaxy to allow him to die of old age.

From the earlier books, Ben was supposed to be Jacen's apprentice.  Why would he sacrifice that?  And Lumiya was leading Jacen to believe that the sacrifice had to be someone he loved.  And ruining his relationship with Ben still doesn't meet the meaning of sacrifice.  The series is not going to end with Jacen being a Sith Lord and the Jedi being destroyed.  Luke will win in the end, and since he lost his wife the writers are going to make sure Ben doesn't travel down Jacen's path.  That's the reason that relationship was severed, not because it makes any sense in Lumiya's plans.  I had thought that her real goal was to have Ben become the Sith Lord, and eventually kill Jacen, like Sidious killed Plagueis.


I got the impression from Lumiya during the earlier books in the series that she didn't want Ben to be Jacen's apprentice. Ben saving that girl's life on Ziost seemed to confirm that for Lumiya, as she didn't think he was Sith material after he showed compassion. From Lumiya's POV I imagine it was a worthwhile loss.

From Jacen's POV he won't be pleased as he liked Ben and wanted him to be his apprentice, but that just makes it more of a sacrifice I guess, not something he necessarily wanted to happen. In a way, I suppose that means it was less artificial and more of a genuine sacrifice, not a case of Jacen actively going out to sacrifice something. The only positive action he took was to kill Mara, the sacrifice, Ben's friendship, was achieved purely through his actions as a Sith- the need to conceal his identity.

I think Jacen still wants Ben to be his apprentice though. He just knows one day Ben will find out and kill him for it. But, he feels Ben needs that hate to become a strong Sith Lord one day, so in his warped and twisted Sith Lordgic he figures it's actually a good thing.

I guess it's like Palpatine. He knew Anakin would turn on him one day as he'd caused the vast majority of his suffering, but so long as Anakin was a Sith Lord first he didn't care (of course, that idea went out the window when Anakin got screwed up, making Palpatine happy to just rule alone and keep Vader on a leash for the rest of his life).

I think it's basically a cop-out by the writers. They had Jacen being desperately afraid Lumiya would find out about Tenel-Ka and Allana, and insist that one of them should be the sacrifice. I mean, he's supposed to sacrifice something he loves, and he really didn't express strong feelings for Ben, or for him as his apprentice. He said he likes Ben. Hardly intense. And he didn't express any grief over the idea of sending Ben back to Luke for more training, because Jacen didn't have time for it. It seems to me the writers were leading up to something, then the train jumped the tracks.

Yeah, that was my thinking too. That's the only reason I hate it when they make a series like this, is because things have a bad habit of jumping track or getting stale

I actually just finished reading the book, and even though I knew what would happen (thanks original title ) it seemed to be fairly poignant. As Goat put it, it wasn't "shock value". However, if you only sparingly read the SW books, it would come off as such since Mara is perhaps the most well-known EU-created character. So she is a "big" name to be killed. But it has been building up, it did add to the story and it was pulled off pretty well.

For SW books in general, there are a lot of bad ones, but there are those good ones dispersed throughout. They won't win any literary rewards, but they're entertaining, which is really the point for this sorta thing in the end Not a fan of Traviss (I think that's how you spell it)...I've found her stuff to be...well...boring in general, but I did enjoy the last portion of this particular book. Seemed to skip along at a good pace as it was finishing up (last 100 pages or so ).

The announcement of the Darth name was sad however. It was completely generic. Something pre-written that they could just easily add in whatever they felt like. My question is, who's going to be the new apprentice?

Yeah I've had troubles getting though the first few chapters to even get into the story, I agree with the term boring on quite a few of them

Yeah, I'm trying to go a Wal-Mart further south of me because it's better stocked and I WANT to read Sacrifice... Even if I know the ending to it

Yeah I plan on catching up on/starting over on, at least my collection of the books I did have quite a few and regret giving them to my little sister that moved 1500 miles away and now I can't even borrow them back

Awww man, that sucks!!! I've got so many SW books that I've gotta install a few more shelves to put a bunch that I've got in boxes right now... I collect everything from SW magazines to the Source books to whatever else I find. :w00t:

My question is, who's going to be the new apprentice?



That's a really good question, Halc

Possibly Ben Skywalker. I seem to remember Muz making a guess that Ben actually becomes Darth Krayt, and this seems to be a good way to make that happen

At least I think that is what Muz guessed

I don't see Ben falling to the dark side. And someone needs to carry on the Skywalker legacy. We do know it continues on, from the Legacy comics. And it's a light-side legacy it seems, so...it should be someone else. Just as of right now I don't see anyone close to that role. Tenel Ka? I don't know...could throw out random names, but really don't see anyone being groomed for it, unless they start to introduce someone in the next book, or someone just pops up out of nowhere.

Well, Darth Krayt is there later on, so someone somewhere takes an apprentice, unless they make it that Krayt just stole the name. I haven't read the Legacy comics, though, so I don't know that whole story

*shrugs*

Maybe Jacen will spring Raynar Thul. Raynar should be pretty bitter about his fate. Seriously though, I bet they bring in a totally new character.

Yeah, I hope they do...

Kyp Durron? Just a possibility...once tainted..always tainted...

Edit:::

I just remembered that he also said something about Jacen being promoted to master, and then covered his tracks and said it was just an idea when Skywalker asked him about it.

Ahhh, that must have slipped by me in one of the books

This might seem a little crazy but perhaps Alema becomes Jacems apprentice. I haven't personally read Sacrifice yet (Curse those publishers not releasing it in paperback yet) I'm still up to date on the story and it seems to me that Ben is going to do exactly what luke did, briefly turn to the darkside and hten turn out stronger in the end

I'm a fan of the idea that Tahiri becomes Caedus' apprentice. I think Alema will be the 'pet' that is mentioned in the prophecy regarding the Sith'ari.