Darth Vader VS. Darth Sidious

Hmmm....This is a hard one for me to decide. Vader has good saber skills, but not sure if he could match Windu's Sidious did. Then again Vader beat Cin Dralleg (or however you spell it) who was the top lightsaber duelist on Corusant besides Yoda. Palpatine held his own against Yoda, which I am not sure than Vader could do. This is close for me because Vader is my idol. I would have to say Sidious. The battle would last about 5 minutes, lightsabers clashing then Sidious would get a shot at him with his trademark Sith Lightning and finish him off. On the other hand Vader would overwhelm Sidious with is Saber and decapitate him. This is a very hard decision and I cannot vote at this time.

I would have to say Vader would win this fight. Probably by throwing Palpatine down a shaft or something.

Figures the fight would end by something completely un-force related. Like palps tripping over a rock and falling into a scarlacc pit after breaking his hip I am gonna go with vader too, just b/c I like him more and thats enough to tip the scales in his favor

Well seeing as how Palpatine's entire power depended on Vader and the fact he was killed by Vader I don't really see how the question even needs asking. The answer is common sense.

That said... Palpatine was capable of killing Vader with one shot of Force Lightning by messing up his suit. Hence why Vader was unable to use Force Lightning himself and why he feared his Master... so... whatever. He'd still kill Palpatine before he died from breathing failure.

Guess I should have specified. I mean before Vader got the suit and before Palpatine got like lizard like. When they were both at the top of their game who would have won?

Tough to tell.

My guess is that Palpy would surprise anakin and gut him like Ki-adi Mundi and Kit Fisto.

In a straight up duel between Chancellor Palpatine versus Knight Anakin, no sneaky business or assaults, I'd have to go with Palpatine.

We don't know terribly much about Palpatine's fighting style, but we can tell a few things.

1.) Excessively fast and aggressive attacks (killing three out of four masters in what... four seconds?)
2.) Very good defense (Successfully defended against Mace Windu, Master of Vapaad for a few minutes, and fought Yoda, Master of Ataru to a standstill)
3.) Lots of force usage, al a Dun Moch, with the throwing of heavy crap at people.

now, we will look at Anakin, who was a student of Djem So. Djem so is very aggressive, and also very defensive, as it gleans both from it's component arts.

Palpatine seemed to favor the thrust, a move that anakin would be very able to deflect with the soresu techniques he would have had to learn. Having failed that, Palpatine would probably try to fry anakin...and whether or not he learned his lesson from his Geonosian fight with Dooku would determine if he lost at this time or not. His retributive strikes to palpatine would have to be faster than Yoda's to get past Palpatine's wicked defense... a possibility for Anakin, if he can avoid the Chancellor's attacks at the same time.

Very close fight.
In a 'real-world' confrontation, no rules, my money would be on Palps.
In some kind of arena duel, with some kind of force limitation rule, money'd be on anakin.

I cant believe my eyes, how can this question be asked! I for one though it was OBVIOUS!!!!

PALPATINE is the better fighter and the stronger opponent, overall would win no question. Explanation defeats the purpose, as it would be a waste of time and effort.

Vader was nothing more than a "Tin man" with a disfuntional family. Palpatine was the true heir to the ancient Sith Lords, how can there be comparison I ask? there is non.

Take my advice, bank on Palpatine. Open your eyes to the truth and it will explain it self!!!

Thats my two cents!

Ok, I'm with the idea that Palpatine killed 3 Jedi Masters in a matter of seconds, and Anakin couldn't even kill one. With that said, it's a no brainer. Besides, Palpatine mastered even the most unknown of Sith Force powers, and Anakin hadn't even completely mastered his knowledge of the Force. I'm all for Anakin, but this is Palps all the way.

Ok, I'm with the idea that Palpatine killed 3 Jedi Masters in a matter of seconds, and Anakin couldn't even kill one.

Hitokiri are you aware of ANY of Vaders accomplishments? Okay not only did he lead a Raid on the Jedi Temple, killing THOUSANDS of Jedi Apprentice through Master, but he also ended up killing Palps in the end like Xanos said. Okay Palps kills 3 masters in seconds, Anakin kill thousands in hours, hmmm.....comes out pretty even in my book. they both are very skilled and very powerful.

Yeah, I'm aware of the assult on the Jedi Temple, but even a Knight can take out a couple Apprentices in no time, and Anakin was higher than them, but even someone with his skill, at that moment, couldn't beat someone who surpassed him in skill and knowledge in the ways of the Force. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for Vader, but Palps has a big advantage, in that sense.

Theres a reason Palpatine needed Vader to do his dirty work hunting down Jedi...

Palps wasnt the heir to the sith lords, he was human. Yes, he gets the title of sith lord, but so does Vader, take that tib

In responce: Vader did not assult the temple by himself he had hundreds and thousands of stormtroopers/clonetroopers to help him. Vaders only distinguished moment was killing apprentices and little padawan children.

Yes Xanos the Emperor did need Vader to do the dirty work, we cant expect the emperor of the galaxy to soil his hands with the blood of children. So he sent his sadistic "Tin" man to do it for him. Thats shows civility and order, "Do what must be done"

Vader was a Dark Jedi, he was a Jedi first, then he was turned to the dark side, then he turned back into a Jedi before he died, an epitaph of indecision. Palpatine was born a Sith like Maul, and died a Sith; so in that sense he was the true heir to the Sith Empire not Vader.

They say Vader was the last Dark Lord of the Sith but that is not true, he had redemed himself by killing the Emperor ( from behind mind you) turning back to the light thus Palpatien was the true last Dark Lord of the Sith as there were none left to continue Bane's decree.

In that sense it is clear, Palpatine rules and Vader drools. Forgive me for being so melodramatically blunt !!! hehe

Thats my two cents!

Yes he killed Younglings which were in the council chambers at the highest point of the Academy, so Vader had to get through all the Jedi that stood in the way. Yes he had the clone army to help him, but they didn't do all the work, there had to be at least 5000 Jedi in that temple, they killed all of them. I am willing to bet Vader killed at least Half of them. Cause if you played the game, the troopers weren't with you very long before they got killed off. Oh and on the game he kills Cin Dralleg who is one of the best Duelists along with his apprentice. Vader killed more Jedi than Palps, and Vader killed Palps.

One you are getting your numbers from a game, go read the book and you will see the number of Jedi at the Temple is far lower then 5,000. He did not kill nearly that number at the Temple.

At no point would Vader have defeated Palp.
Pre-Suit Vader was to young and brash to dispose of the Dark Lord of the Sith.
Post-Suit in an one on one battle, Palp would never have allowed Vader to get close enough to him. In the movie it was clearly not a one on one battle, when Vader tossed Palp down the tube. Not to mention that Palp comes back on his own later, where as Vader is quite dead at the end.

Had Vader not been encased in the suit, and had he still had the majority of his limbs then yes at some point Vader would have disposed of Palps. But that didn't happen.

I was guestimating. I no Vader killed hundreds if not thousands of Jedi over the period of his reign. I know that Suited Vader was slow but more powerful than Anakin. Anakin was quiker with a blade but would be disposed of by Palps force powers. The only reason Palps comes back is because he had a clone or whatever, Vader could have came back if he had a clone. I am still sticking with Vader, Palps was a coward and killed his master in his sleep. Anakin took on the entire Jedi Academy with only several hundred clones. That was one force user vs like a thousand. Vader is still my choice.

Darth Vader's only distinguished moment was killing apprentices and Padawans?

Right...

And Darth Tyrannus.
And Jedi Master Cin Drallig.
And Jedi Master Shaak Ti.
And Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi.
And the Dark Woman, who was another Jedi Master.
And countless numbers of Jedi Padawans, Knights and Masters throughout the reign of the Empire.
And Darth Sidious.

Anakin Skywalker vs. Palpatine would have probably seen Palpatine win due to Anakin's emotional problems. Anakin was still a vastly superior warrior he was just over-confident. Its arguable though that Palpatine was over-confident as well...

Darth Vader vs. Palpatine would have essentially been an even match. Palpatine knew Anakin was stronger than him- thats why he delayed destroying the Jedi Order until he had converted him to the dark side. Teaching him the Sith arts would only have made him stronger. However the suit gave Vader the problem that electricity doesn't work well with machines. Palpatine could have killed Vader very quickly with Force Lightning- thats why he dies in Return of the Jedi. Though as we saw Vader could have survived long enough to kill Palpatine.

You'll notice a distinct similarity between Vader and Windu. Windu was incapable of resisting Palpatine's Force Lightning and would only have been able to win with Anakin's intervention. In comparison Vader was able to withstand Palpatine's lightning long enough to kill him- it just killed him as well in the process.

Darth Vader before the suit would have slaughtered Palpatine in seconds. Bare in mind this is refering to a before the suit Vader that has had time to learn Sith powers. The one we see in Revenge of the Sith isn't any different to Anakin when he was still a Jedi Knight. Even without the powers though after Padme's death his emotional state and over-confidence disappears and he becomes the Darth Vader we see from then on. That manifestation of Darth Vader wouldn't make the mistake of jumping and getting his arms and legs cut off.

This is all largely irrelivant though. George Lucas says Darth Vader is superior therefore he is. The canon is what matters. Everything else is just someone's personal opinion and doesn't hold any real water.

two things goat, and a bit of a whine.

1.) Vader never defeated Kenobi. Watche ep 4 again. Kenobi, the conniving old man, committed suicide to motivate Luke. If you put up your blade in the middle of a fight and you die, it is suicide, not loss.

2.) Mace seemed to be doing a damned spiffy job of blocking palps lightning. From what i saw in the film, Mace didn't get all melty-faced. He begged anakin to help him rather than to turn to palps aid... Whether or not Palps was truly defeated or faking it...well, that's a seperate discussion. Either way, if vader got his arm chopped off, and attacked palps from in front in return of the jedi, i think that palpy wouldn't have gone down the hole.

whine thing.) Cin Draellig? Shaak Ti? In the movie? missed those duels. Special edition? hmmm....

Anakin killed Mace too...

I was going to mention that he killed Mace Windu but I knew that was asking for some people to disagree...

1.) Vader never defeated Kenobi. Watche ep 4 again. Kenobi, the conniving old man, committed suicide to motivate Luke. If you put up your blade in the middle of a fight and you die, it is suicide, not loss.

Perhaps. Obi-Wan knew he couldn't win in a straight fight though. He was too old. Vader had the advantage that being more machien than man meant most of his body was still brand new and in perfect working condition. Machines don't really age.

2.) Mace seemed to be doing a damned spiffy job of blocking palps lightning. From what i saw in the film, Mace didn't get all melty-faced. He begged anakin to help him rather than to turn to palps aid... Whether or not Palps was truly defeated or faking it...well, that's a seperate discussion. Either way, if vader got his arm chopped off, and attacked palps from in front in return of the jedi, i think that palpy wouldn't have gone down the hole.

Mace was doing a fine job blocking it sure... what good is blocking it though if he can keep doing it forever? Evidently either Mace wasn't prepared to die and sacrifice himself for the Jedi Order or he simply wasn't strong enough to push past the lightning and land the killing blow.

whine thing.) Cin Draellig? Shaak Ti? In the movie? missed those duels. Special edition? hmmm....

Cin Drallig is in the holo-recording that Obi-Wan watches when he returns to the Jedi Temple with Yoda. Shaak Ti is in a deleted scene that they removed at the last minute to cut down on the film's length so probably will be in the DVD version- she gets killed at the gates of the temple when he first enters.

Darth Vader didn't even have the willpower to stay evil. That's pathetic.

Thank you, Khobai

Darth Vader didn't even have the willpower to stay evil. That's pathetic.


it wasnt the fact he didnt have will power he was a jedi to begin with and he would be tainted by his emotions i think he turned back because luke and leia was the last thing left of padme and couldnt bear to imagine what she would think if he killed luke and im going with vader on this even though sidious was stronger but hes vader and its not like sidious had the balls to hunt the jedi himself and like luke said his overconfidence is his weakness

Think back to whenever you first saw the movies before you knew all the facts, before there were facts for Vader. Who intimidated you more, Vader or Sidious, i would have to say Vader.

i agree with brujah.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Vader has a mask. Palps doesnt. Vader wins. No contest.

concider, Anakin was never a Sith Lord. Darth Vader, yes even though his age shows in ep 4-6. Palpatine however only became more brilliant with time. Not to mention the obvious, Obi-wan could not have killed the Emperor, Anakin couldn't kill Obi-wan... think about it.

Anakin couldnt. But Darth Vader did. Or did we all miss the origanal trilogy?

As was stated before, Darth Vader did not Kill Obi-Wan. He commited suicide. A one sided suicide pact.

I DISAGREE!