Stuff Goin' On Poll

The ACC currently has the Championship Ladder and the piloting Championship running, but because of the nature of such events, I am curious if anyone would like to see more going on?

As a competitor in any of the Ladders, if you get knocked out early - you're done, it's over until the next one. The ladders take a VERY long time, but can be realistically described as 1 post every three days or so - there's not a 'constant' involvement. In the grand scheme of things, all the ACC stuff is like that... post - wait - post - wait etc.

I have desires for co-op missions, (of which, one was alluded to in my last report), clan supremacy stuff and even different ladder types that coincide with the ACC Armory additions. This poll is basically to see if all of that kind of thing would be beneficial to run at the same time - or not.

i havent even qualified but how you describe it(post wait post wait) sounds boring, more activity. and i have an idea, just an idea, maybe actual db rewards can be given for winning certain battles in a certain hall.(ie crescents and things like that.)

co-op stuff = tres cool, Dalthid.

would they get win-loss stuff or how would that work?

Tyrus - without getting into the long and drawn out version - No. For special events, yes, but in general 'no'.

Muz - the co-op stuff would depend, as far as 'awards' go... but if it's ACC related (which all my stuff would be ) then you'll get win/loss. That choice is usually up to the person running it and how they are intermingling it with the B-Hood. If the KHP, for example, wants to award DB crescents, then win/loss wouldn't fly... (the ol' awarding twice thing) but if I run a co-op, I can award ACC only stuff, like win/loss or the items you can go read in the ACC Armory inventory - yes, they're ACC only... but a few of them can really cause some van-damage

Tyrus, if you like fast action battle try ACC Live. It rocks. You have to write your heart out in just a little bit.

I suppose the problem is weighing up efficient running with how much is available. It would be nice to have more simultaneous running things so that, for example, if people drop out of a Ladder in round one there are other activities for them to take part in. That would put a lot more strain on the staff to get things judged and everything though which would cause other issues.

In the present situation I suppose we could look at starting up the second championship ladder soon. We're in the finals for the first now so there's no more deciding to be done meaning we could probably get underway with figuring out the second champion (and the third and the fourth if we're keeping with the original plan).

For some reason I still really used to like the old Hardcore Hall. Maybe it was just the name. It just had this feel of the battles that happened there being really special. It might be worth having all 18+2 fights being in a special hall and getting a medal or something for taking part rather than just a normal win/lose, as they're pretty damn big ass things. With CFs for ACCLive! I can't quite understand why things haven't lightened up to have CFs for the whole of the ACC but... whatever. I know thats a controversial issue for some, for whatever reason, I can't say I've ever been able to get my head around why that should be an issue. Maybe this will change after Rebirth. Even if not CFs things like bonus credits or XP will actually be meaningful across the board and not just within the ACC itself.

I wouldn't mind seeing more co-op things. Those are different and fun. I don't know if there has ever been one of those 2 v 2 matches either? I can't remember what they were called off hand. A ladder for that kind of tag team match could be interesting. I certainly like the advent of the Pilot Championship as something different.

Yea, that's way beyond me. Not allowing DB awards AND win/loss at the same time was decided was back with Mairin, FF and the EH... it perpetuated to our present state because it's seen as being awarded twice. That's just because when you gain stats you gain ability. I don't see that changing much with rebirth because battles will be worth XP and medals will be the same - so, again, it'd fall into that 'warding twice' thing. Nevertheless, it's way above my pay-grade and something I stopped fighting a long time ago, yet, if there's room for it - I'd gladly resume if I feel that rebirth may lend itself to the change. I'm just not going to hold my breath about it.

The Hardcore Hall still exists, the name was just changed and the 2v2 stuff is still around as well... just no one ever uses it. I started a HUGE 18 person FFA for Tally, but they all dropped the ball despite their reaction for it, I was even doing 3 v 1 stuff for a bit - but those die out because folks realize they weren't too interested in it. However, a team ladde is something we haven't seen (the co-ops have never been ladders) so that could be interesting.

As for the CHL, the initial concensus was to wait till the present one concludes - there was even a poll opened up on here about it So, that's what I'm going to stick with.

is it possible to fight your qualification match on ACCLIVE! ?
just wonderin, because i like fast pased writing where you have ot think on your feet.

That question definitly doesn't apply to this topic - knock it off. As for the question itself, you should be able to answer that on your own - you passed the G:AIC didn't you?

You can't expect every post to be on-topic. Expect to answer oddball ones. Still - people should stay on topic...

Which brings me to this:

I've done some ACC stuff but I was turned off to it pretty quickly. I am not one to write, much less read, long-winded posts. Plus, the whole force power usage thing was different for everyone (some would use footnotes, some used abbreviations, some did both). Trying to read through a post took even longer when you had to sort out what power they were using. I think you've straightened out that mess, but the length of posts should really be limited in some way.

More stuff might be good to change the perspective people may have of the ACC. There must be a lot more people like me who'd like something new, turn-based warfare (or just shorter posts) but not ACCLive.

Turn-based warfare? Now there's an idea... probably totally random and not implementable in the ACC, but hey.

One person writes from the perspective of a large force, the other person from the perspective of an opposing force. Both have to try and write a full-scale battle, not just a single conflict. It would be straying away from the point of the ACC a little, but it might appeal to people who like that kinda thing- Empire at War and stuff. And, if there's a piloting hall, the same principle could be extended to two fleets battling it out...

Does that suck?

It sucks only a little manj... the ACC is really about the characters and not a large scale engagement - for the most part. HOWEVER, I could see a Clan team vs a Clan team... say 10 vs 10 for large scale stuff.

Kaine has a great point - there are definitly A LOT of people who do the long post thingy, and they don't do it well at all. I am trying to kill that a bit, but I'm not sure if I am having any luck. Somewhere, someone started telling people 'write more' instead of 'write more detail' - two different things. I think I have just got the staff to stop telling people that their posts need to be longer (in numbers), but contain more detail - which should make them long enough.

Kaine, if the post length thing is all that's keeping you from battles - you can use a 500 word cap as a handicap. Yep, when you challenge someone, there's a box that you can request a handicap... just pop a word cap in there if you want. give it a try.

Good point. Long doesn't equal succinct, nesscarily.
I really like the Clan vs Clan idea a lot.
I never thought about a word handicap... hmm.

The co-op...what exactly would that be like? 2 high rankers against 10 lesser members or something?

co-ops are usually mission based ACC thingys where you and a teammate work together for a common goal instead of fighting against each other. It could be against other foes, or simply a mission that you have to complete.

I think we've done a co-op thing before. Dark Betrayal or somthing. If I remember correctly it didn't turn out like the CON's had planned but I could be wrong.

Dark Betrayal was the second attempt, hoping to gain the success that the Challenge of Ashvroth (the first one) had. A tip to the differences in succes? Challenge of Ashvroth = Cyris; Dark Betrayal = Alaric... two different CM's. Mine is around the corner, so we'll see if I can muster up the interest.

heh well looks like we'll see in time

Yea, that's way beyond me. Not allowing DB awards AND win/loss at the same time was decided was back with Mairin, FF and the EH... it perpetuated to our present state because it's seen as being awarded twice.


Yes and I was the bastard Chancellor at the time who screamed "NO!" Our reasoning was this, really: people play JA for pleasure all the time and they are not rewarded. As the majority of ACC battles are played for pleasure, our reasoning was that normal matches between members were akin to normal matches played in JA. I still happen to think that. ACC competitions, of course, warrant medals just as playing JA in a competition does.

Kind of going on what Kaine has said, I happen to think the two-week turn over for a battle to be declared timed out is ludicrous. 72 hours since the last post, and after that the battle is timed out. It would make battles go a lot faster. That said, so long as a participant e-mails a Judge or the CM with an appropriate excuse, the battle can be opened and whatnot.

Thumbs up to many of the suggestions made so far!

I have tried to parry for the battle time lengths to be shortened - but the staff (before you go on board) lost their friggin' minds It was a fairly unanimous 'hell no'... unfortunately. However, rebirth will see the establishment of Halls that have integral time limits - less halls than now, but more specific with their purposes.

As for 'awards', I'm not going into that argument again but it is the main reason I am asking about the activity level. Spurts of time during the year always see Clans getting juiced up to run a comp in the ACC - those who actually start 'em rarely complete them with any success (lost interest, prolly), and those who don't get around to starting them... well, they're just talk...

So, I figured, f**k it! I want to offer as much as the B-Hood can tolerate at a given time - but I don't know what that level of tolerance is, hence, the poll

Uhh... I think I'll phase this post into topics, else its a painful muddle on the eyes.

Medals and Stuff

After Rebirth I actually think the stance is going to have to change in the interest of fairness. Let's take a case example: Jedi Academy.

Play a Jedi Academy match, get a Cluster of Fire.

AND get the associated XP with that Cluster of Fire to improve your character sheet that will in turn affect the ACC and other things.

AND get the associated Prestige boost for Prestige related uberness.

AND get the associated Credit boost from the associated payment increase in respect of the associated Prestige increase of all this associatedness.

Basically, after Rebirth, pretty much all activities are going to be doing the whole "dual awarding" thing so it would really be unfair if the ACC ended up being the only area that was doing "single awarding". Though thats more a discussion for when Rebirth actually happens, although less than 40 days away isn't exactly long so its probably worth starting the balls rolling and seeing what people say.

Its much easier to earn Clusters of Fire these days also. In the old days it was true that the casual 'for fun' match rarely got a medal but since we have all day comps going on for practically half the week its not anywhere near as difficult to earn CFs from MP these days. In the old days when we only ran one comp on night of the week, yeah, it was hard, and for those of us outside the crummy time periods (ALWAYS LATE NIGHT EST! DAMN IT!) that were always used back then CFs were pretty much impossible to get.

Today though you get all day Saturday most weeks, all day Sunday every other week, pretty much half of Tuesdays, half of Thursdays- much easier than the old days of nothing but the Thursday Training Night of 6pm EST to 1am EST.

Reading Shadonyx's post actually raises a thought, as like he said, the only reason CFs weren't allowed was the casual fun argument, so even if that never happens, there's not really any reason against awarding them for, say, the Championship Ladder, Pilot Ladder, KRoS Ladder, GJW Ladder, Clan Comp Ladders, etc.

Long Posts

Frankly I've always thought ACC posts should have a word cap the same as the fight itself has a post cap. It makes it really difficult for the person posting first as you never know what your opponent is going to do.

The worst are the first and death posts. If you try to set the tone of a battle as 'short posts' in the first post but then your opponent goes and does a really well written long one you've just screwed yourself, even if for a legitimate reason of "long posts suck".

Then theres the death post where the second person nearly always is in an advantageous position to the first because they can go "ok, time to make a better post" and usually end up writing something just that little bit longer. I've actually always felt that the first persons deathpost should be hidden until both people have posted so that the second poster isn't at an advantage.

Thats why a word cap would be interesting. Not just "we're gonna play 18+2" but "we're gonna play 18+2 with 100 word posts" or something. Its why I currently hate playing matches anymore than around 6+2 as with how long most people write I can't keep a fight up that long with the "dont cause mortal injuries" rules. That far into a battle I expect people to start losing limbs not just be continuing their little lightsaber duel for the fifty seventh time. Shorter posts would stop fights becoming stupidly long. Long posts have always been what I've thought cause fights to suffer, as you fight this huge battle, then suddenly, in a single deathpost, kablam, die, die, die, die, after taking no real serious damage for the rest of the fight.

Long posts are ok with something like a 2+2, you can't really do a decent fight of that length with short posts, but when its getting to an 8+2 level long posts start to really make the whole match drag. Sure, if people wanna do that, whatever, but I do think there should be a kind of choice for people to pick a word limit.

I do think, at least in my experience, that the problem rests in the first poster feeling pressured into writing 'generously'. People rarely want to write a short first post in case their opponent blitzes them with a really long, really good, post. But, by writing generously, they then set the whole tone of the battle as 'uber long posts'. Post counts would reduce the guess work the first person had to do and give them something to aim for not have to magically guess what their opponent is going to write like.

Hmm... I just noticed the bit about a 500 limit existing as a handi-cap. Thats cool though I do feel that a word limit should be as standard a part of a match as the post limit. Especially so in something like an official Ladder. There's too much pressure in things like the Championship and Piloting Ladders, among others like the KRoS one, to beat your opponent that people tend to go into 'write too much' overload in order to make sure their opponent doesn't upstage them by writing more than them. I tend to notice that myself, as its nearly always easier to win if you post second than first, most of the time I lose its nearly always if I've been first up. I tend to notice the same with quite a lot of people.

Co-op Battles

I've always liked these, I think the big flaw with some of the competitions though has been people have been randomly assigned a teammate, and, nine times out of ten, the decent poster has been dumped with a lamer who dies after the first post and loses interest.

Thats happened to me on more than one occassion. I've been all rattled up for the comp then the person I've been teamed with has disappeared right after day one and I'm just left to sit there and twiddle my thumbs. They work well, but obviously need teamwork, as if you disappear you don't just lose, you drag the person you're playing with down as well.

One thing I didn't like about Challenge of Ashvroth and a lot of ACC things though is the tendancy to go with made-up worlds that nobody knows about. Maybe some people like that? Freedom of writing and stuff? I can't say I've ever really been too fond of that kind of thing. I'd rather, instead of the typically Krath-comp style of coming up with entirely unique things (see: GJW Antarans, Krath RoS K'hamar'ans etc.) I prefer it when we actually stick to what I feel is Star Wars and do something that my character has more of a feel for. Its hard really to express much emotion toward an alien race you've never heard of, its much more interesting to do something with, say, the Imperial Remnant that we're all meant to hate and want to murderously obliterate.

So thats something I would like to see more of... more realism and actual Star Wars than fantasy and make believe stuff. The fantasy stuff is already but after so much of the surreal it gets a bit old. It would be nice to actually have some stuff that was more in tune with the galaxy we're meant to be roleplaying in for a change. Though this is a general complaint I have, not just with the ACC, with with everything really, from the KRoS to the GJW plot to whatever else one cares to name.

War Battles or... something

Those actually sound really fun. I guess the difficulty would be judging them outside just general writing skill (admittedly I've always felt that should be 99% of the criteria but I know theres always been people complain about that being unfair as not everyone is fluent in english and stuff).

Rebirth may allow more options for it, I dunno, as we'll be able to see who is better at, say, Battle Meditation, or maybe character sheets will include feats and skills like diplomacy, leadership, etc. I don't really know how much of general d20 stuff is carrying over to future character sheets or if its going to just focus on combat related stuff.

Either way it would be interesting. Though it would require a lot more maturity on the part of the writers, not just "my army is ub3r, me smash you good" then the next person writing exactly the same thing, even after having half their army trashed just before by the other guy. There would also be issues of people go "me release my ub3r fleet of TIE Defenders with ub3r ac3 jeedai p1lots to smash you good" and suddenly claiming their TIE pilots were all a thousand times better than their opponents.

So, good in theory, probably bad in practise. It would be interesting to ponder over how it could work though. What *would* possibly be good would be if, say, you still played one person, but had other NPCs in the vacinity. In the fight I had against DS recently he called on a Nexu from the jungle, that was a really cool use of his surroundings, and something I don't think I've ever seen before. It would perhaps be interesting to have a fight, say, in a cantina, where you might get shot at by the local bounty hunter who is getting pissed off with you making a lot of noise fighting, instead of fighting in Jabba's palace when its magically empty of anybody (like in a normal ACC fight).

It would be interesting also to have, say, Player 1 leading a squad of stormtroopers while playing his Jedi character, and Player 2 doing the opposite, and the two fighting. The majority of the fight would still be about Player 1 Jedi v. Player 2 Jedi but you would have the involvement of the stormtroopers on the side which would give more to write about and expand on the monotonous "me slash you, you slash me, me slash you, you slash me, miss, miss, miss, miss, deathpost, magical kill out of nowhere!" which is what most fights are growing to become.

Its one thing I really don't like about the Morph Hall concept and never have, people have always taken it so literally that they just have 1 v. 1 in an empty room, that's always bored me. I used to like it when fights literally were meant to take place in the scene depicted, that used to encourage more use of the kind of Nexu thing I mentioned above. While the Morph Hall concept doesnt stop that it has seemed to put people off interacting with their surroundings as much as they used to.

hm... I thought the morph hall also created creatures and inhabitants as well... I know i have fought ACC matches with 'incidental' damage to gungans on the sidelines, et cetera.

And as far as i know, you can request 'real' battles through the ACC even now. I did it with Korras (even though the KHC timed out -.-).

What i really liked was the ACC co-op event from the KRoS. Being able to request those would pwn. There's people i would love to write with, outside of run-ons (and without junk from other people going on) but have no reason fictionally to fight them. Plus, going on the whole master-student thing works well with it.

as far as fighting k'hamer'ans, antarrans, blah blah...the plotline of our own battles can be whatever. Involve the remnant, involve the bothan spy network, involve the bounty hunters. It ain't the whole DB, it ain't an official war, it's just you and your comrade whooping on a few.

But yeah, goat, i agree with you on the db over-reliance on our own inventions.

that said... <3 Dalthid!

well I'm gonna interject somthing here. Somone said somthing about getting medals for the ACC and stuff but you'd think that winning the battle then eventually rankng up and getting bonus points for your CS would be enough.

Uh somthing else that I wanted to say was about the war battles. would it be like on ground battles or could we do them in space? OR Both? either way would be cool. But isn't that what the death maych hall is for? or is that somthing else?

Real quick since Xanos thinks this is his podium to write his long winded nonsense...

Awards - I'll deal with it when rebirth establishes the criteria

Long posts - Again, folks 'think' they have to write long... a long post doesn't require a reply of a long post... and if a Judge rates a battle because of post length (unless there is actual detail that made it better apart from the length) then f**kin raise the BS flag, that judge won't have a job anymore, I swear it!

What I have tried to relay on COUNTLESS occasions is the 'special stuff' like word counts are not limited to special events... stuff like that can be requested in the challenge. Like a post cap, the pseudo letter tax (i.e. you can't use the letter 't') and pretty much whatever you can think of as far as a format. Even the 'war' battles have been available for eons - they just have to be set up special, so you just have to mail the staff with the particulars.

--The idea of hidden deathposts was actually what it was supposed to be, way back when - I forget why it went tits up but it did and it's something on the 'list' for rebirth. I've always liked that.

War/Coop - Competitions run by me in the ACC won't deal with places we don't know. More to the point, my comps will deal with the B-Hood and the members, for one simple reason. The Centre is about the combatants - in the end, its a training facility - it isn't a war machine with an army or anything. So, I 'feel' that any large scale comps should be internal - leaving the external stuff to clan/b-hood ventures if that makes sense.

For whomever reads this post, here's a spoiler... the next coop that is in development will take you to the Pilots Den to fly to your planet location, the Combat Centre to get to the terrestial location and the Consortium for a 2v2 final battle - it is going to be huge (in format anyway - interest is still unknown). You will not be paired randomly, you will sign up with who you want to play with... which Challenge and Dark were - the other stuff was courtesy of the RoS staff, the ACC staff only pits unknowns for ladders - or unless a person cant find a partner.

K - losing my train of thought....

I had a great idea when I was working out this morning.

Double Elimination ladders. The idea came to me when a friend was telling me about Florida getting mopped in the College World Series. I think this would give those that loose somthing to do even if they loose that first battle you know? After like the 1st round set up a looser's bracket? Mabye this has been done before but if it has I missed it.

Nope... maybe the next CM can do it, I don't play that way - if you lose, you lose - was Alderaan given a 2nd chance

hey dalthid, i put the sig you made me on(please dont hurt me for taking so long) thanks again, now(before my post gets sent to spam) i think once i qualify, i like the idea of the pilots co op thingie you mentioned. it sounds interesting.

Gee Dal, you make it sound as if your resignation is iminent...

But we all know it's not so ok that might not be your thing just thought I'd kick an Idea out there. I'll have another one, eventually

I was just giving you sh*t for the reasoning... fact is, I just don't like 'losers' brackets... they're kinda pathetic. But you're right, it's my opinion and not everyone would share it.

As for 'resignation' bite your tongue! The GM knows the only way he can get rid of me is to fire me or, kill me, of course

he'd pobably choose the latter

Actually, this is why I don't like ladders - you lose once ad you don't have anything to do anymore. Some swiss style thingy would be cool to see complete placements, not just "lost one game" probably by the chance that you run up against the champion early

I've always liked the idea of an ACCLive! Ladder. It could even be a monthly thing to promote the ACCLive! and get more people into it. You could even have an ACCLive! Champion. I think I heard someone say that a Ladder might be in the making, but I haven't heard anything about it since.

The ACCLive! Ladder will come after re-birth, but it's not like a 'normal' ladder. Because the battles are timed, having the signups, post time limit and all the other 'ladder-prep' stuff would be a pain in the poo-box... I'm prolly going to go with a double-elim tournament which will be held on a series of specific days, points based most likely. We'll have to wait to see how Live integrates with the new site - everything will depend on that, more to come as soon as I know.

Ara, there's an easy fix to that... don't lose

Sounds good!